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The Burke Avanti Project
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SilverHawkDan
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Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:34 am    Post subject: The Burke Avanti Project Reply with quote

OK Everyone,
I had one amazing day.
First I had the pleasure of meeting HDCadet in person.
Chuck is a great guy. Not only did he take my wife and I to see the storied Burke Avanti but he also let us get close to and admire his R3 Avanti.
If you have not seen this car I have to tell you it is Awesome.
I walked into the garage and I was 11 years old again and standing in the showroom of Frost and French Studebaker in Santa Monica and looking at my first R3.
This car is museum quality in every aspect.
The detail in the engine compartment was beyond anything I have personally witnessed. This car is the standard by which other restored to stock cars should be judged.

Then we went and saw the Burke Avanti. I only have time to post one picture tonight and so I thought I'd go for a little jealousy and envy


Yes, that is yours truely sitting behind the wheel and reaching up to pop the chute of one of the most famous Studebakers to ever fly across the salt.
I can feel the envy! LOL I will have more to say and more pics tomorrow if time permits.
Sleep will be impossible for me tonight.
I can still smell the salt on the car.

Silver Hawk Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.


Last edited by SilverHawkDan on Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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Reverborama
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Cool! Post more pictures!
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Dave Bloomberg
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan you look great in that most famus Avanti to ever hit the salt. Looks like you are going 200+ mph, Dave
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Original owner of 1963 Avanti, race my Avanti at Bonneville, Muroc Dry lake & El Mirage, presently hold world records for D/CPS at Bonneville, Muroc & El Mirage race courses.
In 2006 became member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club.
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sbca96
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it XM equiped? Wink

Tom
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'63 Avanti, 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO TR-3550 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires
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SilverHawkDan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:05 am    Post subject: The Burke Story Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,
I am still flying from my day yesterday. Again, I would like to publicly thank Chuck for being so gracious to Kathy and I.
We got to see two very impressive Studebakers in one day.
I want to encourage each of you to be sure and make it a point to see Chuck's beautiful R3 if your ever in the area.

Now for the Burke car update.
I am going to try to post a slide show link on this post for all to see.
The pictures do not do the car justice but you will get the idea.
I could have spent all day looking at all the details of this car.
While it is not up to today's standards for a clean build the car is very well built and engineered.
Obviously if in 1979 it averaged over 220 at Bonneville.
The car is in remarkably good shape considering it's 36 years (1963 to 1997 according to the stickers) of service in Bonneville racing.
I couldn't help but be in awe of the car.
I have seen many articles over the course of my life that were written about this car and it's accomplishments.
So you have to know that I am both honored and consider it a priviledge to be offered the chance to restore this car to it's true purpose and glory.
This car deserves to be reunited with the salt.

So now the task of putting together a plan and a program to make this dream come true.
I would like to take this opportunity to ask my fellow Studebaker racers if they would like to be a part of this great undertaking.
As I see it there is a car, a trailer, an engine and a lot of work to be done.
While I am confident that I can get the manpower needed to do the work there is a long list of things that will be needed to make this dream a reality.
So please consider the project and if you feel that you want to have a part in it, (lending parts or ?) let me know.
You can send me a message and I will get back to you.
If you wish to talk to me in person just leave your contact information in your message.

So barring a screw up here are the pictures from yesterday.
Enjoy and remember drool on the key board can cause a short circuit and possibly ruin your computer.

(slideshow)

or
[/url]https://s125.photobucket.com/albums/p56/dieselguy2006/?action=view&current=610fcf97.pbw[/url]

Just click on the picture and sit back and enjoy. There are 45 pictures total.

Silver Hawk Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.
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mbstude
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck Dan. This is my new favorite thread. Cool
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Alan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some serious safety issues around the rear shackles, spring eye and eye bushings. That car has seen some serious modifications since I last saw it in 1969.
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SilverHawkDan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: So you noyiced did you. Reply with quote

Alan,

Yes there are some thigns that will need to be corrected but that is about the most serious one that I was able to see with the car on the trailer. I will know more when it's on a rack and can get a good look at it. Do you remember any details about the last time you saw the car? Where was it and was it at Bonneville? How fast did it go? Who was driving it? Just looking for information about the car. Thanks.

Silver Hawk Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.
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Alan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, I worked for Paxton from Aug. 66 till April 69. During that time I removed the 229 and put a 331 Chrysler in it. The Due got the Cammer.

Last edited by Alan on Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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sbca96
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love the "speed tape" on the passengers side rear quarter glass. Though
it looks like a good base to start with for sure. We are cheering for yah!

Two good things to buy for your project is a nice digital camera, I've found
my Canon Rebel XT to be a great all around camera. Its also an SLR so if
you have some lenses from a film SLR you can use them too.

The second item is a good video camera to document the process. Canon
has a nice mini DV camera that shoots both wide screen and 4:3 in digital.
Get a good camera mount, or add a mount to the roll cage for your runs.

Stay away from Sony.

Tom
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SilverHawkDan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:30 am    Post subject: Wow. Reply with quote

Alan,
I would love to know more. Chuck filled me in on the first three engines.
It must have been something working on that car when it was fresh.
It looks like someone didn't want to spend the money for narrowing the differential and moving the springs inboard.
So they put the spring shackles, air shocks, and a helper spring set up that you use for a truck when your towing a trailer.
Pretty mouse but it will not look like that when we get done with it.

Tom,
I think your right about the camera and video camera.
I plan to get my brother to come down and take some real pictures and then he can teach my wife and I how to use the camera we have.
When used right it takes some awesome pictures.
So we hope to get that fixed before we start on the car.
I already started the book/journal.
This is going to be awesome.

Silver Hawk Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.
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sbca96
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the Canon Mini DV camcorder we got :

https://www.handycamcorder.com/canon-mini-dv-camcorder-zr850-with-1mp-ccd/

It also doubles as a mid level digital camera if you buy the memory card.



Tom
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SilverHawkDan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:14 am    Post subject: Cool Camera Reply with quote

Tom,
That is a cool looking camera. Do you think there are any deals out there right now on those? About what do they go for?

Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.
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SilverHawkDan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:26 am    Post subject: Flashback Reply with quote

I have to tell everyone about the incredible moment I had while checking out the Avanti. When I climbed into a drivers seat and looked out the window I was immediately transported back to 1969. Sitting in the back seat because of the engine being under the dash it reminded me of the Flower Power Barracuda. It was a AA/GS (double a gas supercharged) car with a 426 Blown and Injected Hemi. It held the NHRA national record at one time, 8:67 at 186 MPH. I was the transmission builder, not bad work for a 17 year old kid. I was building short shaft torqueflites for him and a few other racers. You can't imagine what it is like to go from 0 to 180 mph in 8 seconds. It's both exhilarating and scary. The Avanti has the box where the dash should be, the throttle petal with the toe return hook and a handle brake set up. When I reached up for the parachute handle I got goose bumps remembering what it was like. I can't wait to take this hot rod for a ride. Only a few more obstacles standing in the way but we are very close to closing the deal. Stay tuned.
Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.
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SilverHawkDan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:44 am    Post subject: Rear Suspension Reply with quote

I thought some of you might like a closer look at the rear suspension. Very interesting.
[img][/img]

There are the usual elements. Sway bar, leaf springs, ladder bars and then some oddities. Notice the heavy duty chain with the bolt through it. Also the add on ad-a-leaf set up and air shocks. The shackels, add-a-leaf and air shocks I think were added to get clearance for the 18" wheels and land speed tires. The pictures of the back of the car are a little deceiving as the right front tire is flat. That lifts the left rear up a bit. But all in all the only purpose I can see for those items is to lift the back end up. Any other thoughts are welcome.

Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.
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Alan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a Ford 9" with truck link type traction bars. The early Ford spring hanger brackets are 43" wide center to center and the Avanti is 41 1/4" some people take and spread the Stude springs apart to fit in the Ford brackets. Lots of things in bind.
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SilverHawkDan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:14 am    Post subject: Avanti Springs? Reply with quote

Alan,
Do those springs look like Avanti springs to you. I thought they looked wrong for a Studebaker. I think they may be out of a brand X car. I will use the ladder bars and sway bar. Don't like air shocks. If it takes narrowing the differential to make the tires fit under the wheel wells then so be it. The rear spring hangers have got to go. If things get narrowed then a new set up will be part of the fix. Any thought on the chain?
Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.
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sbca96
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Cool Camera Reply with quote

SilverHawkDan wrote:
Tom,
That is a cool looking camera. Do you think there are any deals out there right now on those? About what do they go for? Dan


I did a quick search for the exact model and they are in closeout, so if you
find one it should be pretty cheap, there is a new model that replaces it. I
took my "driving around" video on Youtube with it, and the shifting through
the gears videos. Should be able to get one for $200 to $250 no problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMZ_MObo7DA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVfCkFcjmVw

Tom
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sbca96
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the pictures they look like Avanti springs to me, they are the same
as Lark and wagons, just a different combination/number of springs. Might
be worth while to go with an upper/lower control arm suspension and then
use adjustable height coil overs to dial it in perfect.

Tom
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Jeff Rice
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Suspension Reply with quote

Looking at this one picture......
The only thing truly 'lacking' is adjustability.
Your ride height can be manipulated with a different spring curve/length to eliminate the air shocks.
But the pinion angle is locked with that old style GM pickup style ladder bar. (nothing wrong with that, other than a lack of adjustability).
If the pinion angle is OK at the ride height you intend to run, then I would suggest having the car ride height and spring rate set at a good spring shop.
They are equipped to do this kind of work.
They can add/remove leaves and re-arch the spring if needed.
(I know some do not like re-arching springs, but this is a vehicle that only intends on running a couple hundred miles in the next few years)
If the pinion angle needs changing (which I doubt if it was run that fast this way) then perhaps the ladder type bar could be rebuilt with either the correct angle built in, or some adjustability built in..

The intention is to make the car safe, run true, and get it out on the salt/dry lakes.
Just the safety upgrades are going to require a lot of work.
I'll betcha a salt flats donut Dave's makin' a list and checkin' it twice...or thrice Razz
Jeff Cool
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Alan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, In looking at the pics it appears to be a 64-72 Chrysler E-body spring like off 65-66 Ramchargers. You can buy them from Speedway and others for about $100 each. They are too long for an Avanti. The Avanti spring is 50 1/4" center of eye to eye. The Chrysler is 54 3/4" eye to eye. Looks like he re rolled the eye. The Chrysler is a 1" eye and the Avanti is .875". The front portion of the springs are almost the same with a 1 1/2" eye and 20" from center of eye to center of locating pin for axle pad for the Avanti, Chrysler is 20 1/4". The Avanti spring is 2 1/2" wide and .270" thick and 5 leaves. The Chrysler is .320" thick and 2 1/2" wide with 4 leaves. The locating pins are different too. The Avanti being 9/16" with a 3/8" fine thread and the Chrysler 1/2" pin with a 5/16" thread.
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SilverHawkDan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:54 am    Post subject: It's a GO!!! Reply with quote

Hello Studebakers Racers
I wanted to let you know that the Bucket List Dream, Burke Avanti project is a GO! Today I made contact with the enigne provider and he is fully onboard with this dream project. So the car will be outfitted with a Jim Lange built 304 and Novi 2000. I hope to go down in the next week or two to pick up the car and get started with the inspection and teardown process. I plan to post the progress and each of the individual project builds on the site for all to follow along. We hope to have the car at El Mirage in May 2010 for certification and shake down. So stay tuned.

Jeff,
You are right about wanting the car to be safe. I hope that we can put some adjustability into the suspension without changing the overall look. I think we can make the attaching point adjustable keeping the ladder bars original at the differential attaching point. When I get the car home I will take some more pictures with detail and some measurements to get your imput.

Alan,
That was what I thought. As a former Mopar racer they looked S/S all the way. The scary part for me was the rear attaching point. The shackle is pushed as far back as it will go. The rear eye has been cut off and the eye looped. As far as I could see there was no bushing just the 3/4" bolt shoved through the spring perch. I see some custom made springs in the future. I really think the car will look and handle better with the body lower and the tires tucked in the wheel wells. I can't wait to see what that chain is attached to.

Tom,
I looked in the Sunday paper and there are several slaes on the latest generation of that camera. Thanks for the lead and information.

Silver Hawk Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.
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Dave Bloomberg
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan looking at your picture of the underside at the rear of car is sure different than mine. I have the orignal Avanti springs with one extra leaf added and standard shocks. And so far up to a speed of 201mph no problems with handling. One thing to be concerned about is when you add ballast to the car for stability at high speeds you need the rear springs to be strong enough for the extra weight, in my case 650 lbs of ballast, also your rear tires have to be rated at the extra weight on them too. The Goodyear front runers are used in the front of my car at 23" dia on 15 " racing wheels and the rear are Goodyear Front runners that are 28.1" dia on 15" wheels, Goodyear makes two configuations of racing tires for the rear, the standard front runners are around $140 each and a stronger thicker side wall Goodyear Bonneville tire is around $250 each which is a safer tire if your ballast is very heavy. These tires can be ordered from Carrol Shelby in Las Vegas, IN your class for racing which is D/CBALT you can run a rear wing (Spoiler) like Jim Lange did, then you don't need as much ballast. In looking at your picture of the underside of the rear, where does the parachute attach to the car?? Its very important that is be attached at the correct spot to ensure it won't lift the front wheels of the car when it opens if mounted to high or if too low will lift the rear wheels of the ground when it opens. I'm sure that Bill Burke has located it correctly being he has been at 240 with the car. Take care, I'm excited about your project and goal, Dave
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In 2006 became member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club.
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SilverHawkDan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:46 am    Post subject: Rear Suspension Reply with quote

Dave,
I am not sure why the suspension is so beefed up but I suspect it was to clear the rear tires from the underside of the wheel well lip.
Chuck told me that the spare tire well on the car has been filled with cement.
Not sure what cement weights hardened but that might explain some of the additions.
The car has 18" Halibrand wheels out back and 15" Halibrands up front.
I didn't measure the diameter but I will do it when we get the car up here.

As for the parachute it appears that there were two chutes mounted in the back of the trunk lid.
If you look at the pictures of the back of the car you will see where a section of the trunk lid has been cut away and a piece of sheet metal was installed.
I saw some mounting rings inside the trunk area and assumed those were for the parachute attachment.
Again I will need to take a closer look at that situation.
The other thing I failed to look at closely was the seat belt and shoulder harness mountings.
I know that research has shown that there are optimal attaching points and that might have to be modified.

But all in all I missed the details because I was in awe of the car.
I have followed this car through three decades and just to be offered the use of the car was very overwhelming and still is.
But when it comes to the build the awe will take second place to making sure the car is fast and safe.
I will keep in mind during the build that I don't want to do anything that will forever alter the original design and intent of the builders.
Modify yes, rebuild not unless absolutely necessary.
I can't wait to get started.

Silver Hawk Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.
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stewed
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan wrote:
There are some serious safety issues around the rear shackles, spring eye and eye bushings. That car has seen some serious modifications since I last saw it in 1969.


Iwas on the salt in 1969 and remember seeing the car.Dan I am now looking at the 1968 Speed Week coverage in the HOT ROD YEARBOOK #8,page 142 with a pic of the car under power.Set record in B/GC at 182.867mph driven by Steve Burke.Had my computer worked on last JULY,never hooked up my printer,so can't scan and post pic right now.Maybe later this week.
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Avanti
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, the car did a one-way 252ish, but blew on the return. That was with a supercharged Chrysler.

Bill Burke was not kind in his description of the person who insisted on and did the final tuning between runs when we discussed this some years ago!
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SilverHawkDan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:03 am    Post subject: Not too kind? Reply with quote

Avanti,

If the car did 252 on the first pass and the tuner decided to change things I would hope they made little changes not big ones. It's very difficult with engine wear and other factors to make back to back runs that are real close to each other. Things like weather and track conditions come into play also. So if Bill thought the tuner had made too big an adjustement then he probably wasn't too happy with them. As a Mopar guy I think the Hemi would be a good fit for the car but how much sweeter to go 200+ with Stude power.

I expect to hear from Jim Lange about the engine for the Burke car this coming week. I'll be sure and keep you posted. Still have not found a garage for the project but am hopeful the right place will emerge. Did line up a possible rotisserie to use for the undercarriage prep. Talked to the spring guy and he is willing to look at the car and see if the springs on the car can be modified or if they will have to be replaced. Looking at Koni coil overs to replace the air shocks. Got my rule book yesterday. Got some reading to do and then meet with David Bloomberg to see about the 2010 changes. Looks like head restraints are the biggest change.

Silver Hawk Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.
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stewed
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have had no luck in getting my printer/scanner to talk with my computer.
Very dissapointing.I'll keep trying.
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sbca96
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stewed wrote:
Have had no luck in getting my printer/scanner to talk with my computer.
Very dissapointing.I'll keep trying.


If its not "copyrighted" Walmart will do it.

Tom
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SilverHawkDan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:35 pm    Post subject: Don't sweet it! Reply with quote

Stewed,

Take your time. It's not like I need it right away. When you get things working just post it. I think I have things worked out for a place to store and work on the car. Just waiting on a phone call.

Silver Hawk Dan

Tom,
What does Wally World share for this?
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