Racing Studebakers!

SilverHawkDan · R3/R4 Member Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 258

Tom,
Yes it is similar. I am going to use the Energy Suspension E1102 Universal engine mount and vibration dampener. It is a poly design with the interlocking metal plates to prevent mount separation. I prefer to use poly mounts on race cars over the solid steel. I have ripped the mounting lugs off of small block chevies using solid mounts. Never had that problem with poly mounts. Don't like them on a daily driver though. Too much vibration transfer for my liking. A good rubber mount with interlock plates works great for the street.

The mount you posted is similar to the trans mount I will be using. It too is an Energy Suspension unit E1108 and it is just about identical to that mount but about 1/2" taller. It is for GM and others using a T10 trans. Although it can be used in other applications since the bolt pattern is very popular in OEM circles.

I haven't had a chance to look at the picture of your Avanti on the road but will do so tonight. Maybe you can cruise out Morro Bay way next week if the weather is good and check out the Burke car. Thanks for the input.

Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.

sbca96 · Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:15 am Post subject: Re: Mounts

SilverHawkDan · R3/R4 Member Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 258

Tom,
I had a friend who fought the same torque tube battle. I believe he made a new torque tube with heim joints and added top mounted bars to the differential to keep the axle from wrapping up. Worked well as I recall.

I did some resaerch and with the help of the good folks at Energy Suspension found the mounts that will work for the application. I am going to try to make it possible for Chuck to put the car back to it's present configuration so that he can set the car up to any of the previous combinations. It presents a few challenges over just welding in plates and mounts but I believe it will be worth it. Look for the mount build shortly.

Next on the adjenda is the repair of the drivers side front fender. It has a five inch long crack in it and it has been repaired (not very well) before. I will have to grind out all the old stuff and build a new support system that will prevent a re-occurance. I will post the job on here as I think everyone needs to see what kind of trick stuff is out there for fiberglass repair. Kent makes some very trick stuff for this and other plastic repair. So keep watching and I'll keep posting.

Dan
_________________
Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.

Karl · Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Mounts

The mount you posted is similar to the trans mount I will be using. It too is an Energy Suspension unit E1108 and it is just about identical to that mount but about 1/2" taller. It is for GM and others using a T10 trans. Although it can be used in other applications since the bolt pattern is very popular in OEM circles.

Dan[/quote]

Dan,
Heres a picture of the Trans. mount on the Twin. I don"t use the one that fits under the bell housing.

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SilverHawkDan · R3/R4 Member Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 258

Karl,

The mount pictured is the narrow version of the one I will be using. Same bolt patterns to crossmember but wider at trans. I am going to build a new mounting plate since the one in the car is rusted out. I'll post pictures as it happens.

Dan
_________________
Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.

SilverHawkDan · R3/R4 Member Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 258

OK. Today I felt like I was moving forward with this project. With the help of my friend Richard and my wife we were able to get the mock up engine/trans set up assembled and into the car. A great big "Thank You" goes out to Gordon Tarbell for the use of all the parts necessary to make this happen. Gordon, enjoy the pictures. First I ran a tap through all the holes in the block, heads, bell housing. Then I started with the block
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Next came the heads and then the bellhousing and trans.
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Forgot to run the tap through the trans mount holes. Next it was time to set it all in place.
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It was an interesting task as the engine set back caused us to make several adjustments along the way. But finally it was in place. Or so we thought.
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It seems the Hemi and whatever trans they were using sat in the car differently than the Studebaker will. So I got to do what I wanted to for a while, I got to cut out the rusted out trans mount.
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Just as I finished that my good buddy from across the street showed up. He is the owner of Bear Metal Kustoms and does this kind of thing all the time. He was very helpful and reminded me of some tricks I had forgotten about setting up for engine and trans mounts. He also saw the wheels on the car and told me he could make a set just like the ones on front for the rear. Cool. So now we shoved the whole mess back and we had what we were looking for. I can now see that this set up will fit real nice in the car.
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Kind of looks puny in that big old bay they built for the Iron Hemi. But I like it. I can get to everything real nice. I can even sit in the engine bay and work on it. Now how cool is that. So now we will move it back into the shop (they were doing some painting so we did the work outside) and level everything out and fab the mounts. Decided to drill and sleeve the frame rather then welding mounts to the frame. That way Chuck can set it up any way he wants when I'm done flyin down the salt with it. So look for more in a week or so.

Dan
_________________
Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.

PackardV8 · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:08 pm Post subject:

Lookin' good, Dan.

Suggestion about mounts on frame, since I am going through this just now on my truck project.

1. Use 1/2" ID mechanical tubing as sleeves/spacers. It comes in 1"OD and 1.5"OD. It is expensive unless one can find it in a scrap yard. Since you are only going to need a couple of feet, the $1-per-inch price is bearable. It is worth the price because 1/2" grade 8 bolts are a perfect fit through it, it is thick enough not to crush when the bolts are tightened and the thick shoulders add a lot of strength.
2. The Stude frames are pretty hard steel. Use a good-quality 3/16" stub bit to drill the pilot holes for the 1/2" holes. A small air drill is easier to maneuver in the tight spaces under there than an electric battery powered.
3. Work backward from the Stude engine to the motor mounts to the spacers to the frame. Mock everything up, tack the spacers to the mounts and then to a 1/8"plate which will fit inside the frame. It is easier to use the spacers already on the mount as a pilot to drill the holes in the frame than to try to align everything after welding. I used the 1/2" drill bit through the spacers to make a dimple on the frame to locate the 3/16" pilot drill, removed the mount plate, drilled the holes, checked the mount for alignment and only then finish welded it.
4. Find an engine shop with a Wheelabrator shot blaster. It is just great for cleaning weldments prior to painting.

thnx, jack vines

SilverHawkDan · R3/R4 Member Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 258

Jack,
Are you related to Jason? He said the same things yesterday. Although he didn't tell me "where" to get the spacers. Thanks for the step by step. That helps hearing it from someone who's done it before. I've done that set up for installing trailer hitches before so I am somewhat familiar with it but you nailed it. So now I have to find some 28" tall tires on Ford rims that I can mount on the car before the final set of the engine. Since we are going to be running carbs it needs to be set right for the sake of the float bowls. Level ground, right tires ect. Look for more pictures later. Next up is the front fender fiberglass repair. Needs to be done before the lettering is applied on Thursday.

Dan
_________________
Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.

PackardV8 · Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:46 am Post subject:

Dan, most any steel supply house can cut you a length of tubing. They call it 1/2"ID-1/4"wall for the 1"OD and 1/2"ID-1/2"wall for the 1.5"OD. Measure how much you are going to need because the 1" is about $1-per-inch and up.

thnx, jack vines

Alan · Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:29 pm Post subject:

Or you can go to the metal supply and buy a 12' piece of 1" bar stock and cut to approx. length and drill and ream it out to 1/2" or any other size you need or want and it is less than $15 for 12 ft.

SilverHawkDan · R3/R4 Member Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 258

Well today was a mixed bag. Got some bad news about an engine I had my eye on but turned around and half hour later had a Tremec Five Speed loaned to me for the car. The owner told me to just bring it back when I was done with it. To top it all off it is fully rebuilt and ready to go. So now the fun begins.

Also secured all the metal, plasma cut for the motor mounts and got an all clear on the design. It's good to have Bonneville guys as customers. He even told me that I could bring any sheet metal I had up and I could use his tools to shape, mold or whatever I needed for the car. I even shared my custom ideas with him and he said bring my designs and let's build them. You guys are going to love them. So if all goes well I will be able to share some pictures of the car with the El Mirage lettering on it tomorrow night. Keep watching and try and keep up.

Dan
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Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.

Tom Osborne · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:30 pm Post subject:

Dan, This is all coming together very nice, great to have some extra fellas willing to bend up the metal. Awesome Please keep the pictures on the way, and look forward to the paint job. Tom O.
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"First by far with a post war car"
TOM-O-HAWK STREET/STRIP Project

mbstude · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:31 pm Post subject:

I love watching another's life long dream come true. Especially when it involves a special Avanti and Bonnevile. Cool

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, Dan. I'm loving it.
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Matthew Burnette
Your Friendly Stude Trim Bender

Starlight Stainless
912-253-3037

sbca96 · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Good Day, Bad Day

Karl · Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:02 pm Post subject:

Dan,If you need a adapter for your TKO let me know. Have one you can use. have a out put yoke also. Wink

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SilverHawkDan · R3/R4 Member Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 258

To Tom and Karl,
You guys are awesome. Thank you for the information and the offer of the adapter. It's because of guys like you and others on this site that this project is even taking shape. I will let you know if I need the adapter.

OK, today my lettering guy cancelled again. He is set for tomorrow afternoon so we shall see. But since I was planning to go there anyway I thought I would get a start on the fiberglass repair. The left front fender is in bad shape so I started there. The biggest problem was a busted out piece that had started a stress crack that was growing up the fender. So first things first, I drilled a hole at the top of the crack to stop the progress.
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Next you have to understand that todays plastic repair materials are stronger than the OE fiberglass but flex at the same rate to prevent pop out. So the idea is to allow the material to bond to the existing glass and fill a gap that allows for strength. So the next step was to remove all loose pieces and "V" grind the crack. V grinding creates a channel for the repair to strengthen the damaged area. If you just put repair material in the crack but don't V grind it you are depending on the material to keep the two pieces together. If you V grind it then the material is doing all the work regardless of movement of the now two pieces. Normally I would grind a V channel about 3/8" wide on each side of the crack and then fill it in. But since I am trying to minimize the paint damage I stuck to a 1/4" or less V on the outside. I was much more agressive on the inside although I couldn't go too crazy since the fender has been repaired several times and is real thin. So I just made sure I could get the strength I needed to prevent a re-occurance of the crack and separation.
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The next step is to clean the area completely of all sanding dust and grease or oil or any other thing that will prevent adhesion. With rigid plastic you can use a solvent based product to do the cleaning. I recommend a spray can over a rag and squeeze can to prevent lint. On flexible plastics never use a solvent based cleaner. It will bring the release agents to the surface and you will think you are trying to glue to a greasy plastic part. Use soap and water or even better and mixture of water and vinegar works great. Our Kent cleaner is made up of vinegar , water and other agents that clean and promote adhesion. Now it is time to attach the patch material. Kent makes it's fiberglass repair patch with a two part set up. A strong plastic mesh and a kitty hair fiberglass backing. The mesh has an adhesive already applied so it sticks to the area being repaired and looks like this.
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Now you are probably wondering why I only prepped and patched the top part of the damaged area. I was forced to do this because the lower area was so bad that when I tried to grind on it it flexed so bad it started to cause cracks up top. So I figured the only thing to do was stabilize the upper area and then proceed with the lower repair. Next came the Chem-Weld 45 repair material. It was at this time that I realized that the only material I had on hand was the 45. I would have liked to use the 15. The 15 and 45 refer to the work time on the material. The longer the work time the longer the cure time also. Since it was cool outside I could have made a smoother repair with the 15 but the 45 works OK.
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With the back side covered I applied a small amount of repair material to the outside. The whole idea is to fill in the channel you create when you V grind.
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I then proceeded to make repairs on the other four areas of damage. I made my repairs to the back and then filled the channel. When I go back next time I will sand the excess material away and then use our Chem-Patch finishing glaze to finish filling in the channel. It is like a bondo for plastic. Again we make two glazes. One for rigid and one for flexible plastics. Look for that part next time. I took some cool pictures while I was waiting for the material to cure up. I didn't want the cover to stick to the repair areas. I'll share those pics later. So here are the other areas I repaired.
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Keep in mind that the repair on the back side is two to three times larger than the front side. Also the material can be sanded down after it cures if you need a smooth or cleaner looking repair. Since this is in the wheel well I don't figure to make it pretty, just strong. That's it for tonight. More tomorrow. I don't plan on working on the car tomorrow since I will be celebrating my Birthday. This is #5 I wasn't supposed to be here for so I take the day to reflect on my many blessings. This year each of you is included in that list.

Dan
_________________
Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.

sbca96 · Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:19 am Post subject:

Happy Birthday!

Tom

Sonny · Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:56 am Post subject:

Happy Birthday Dan! Here's to many, many more!

I can't thank you enough for such in-depth "coverage" of the Burke Avanti resurrection. In fact, I look every day for your updates & progress reports!
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Sonny

SilverHawkDan · R3/R4 Member Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 258

Thank you to everyone for the Birthday wishes. Just kicking back and enjoying the day. Waiting to see if the lettering guy cancels again.
Yesterday while I was waiting for the plastic repair to cure I took the hood off the Avanti and pulled the engine forward about 2 inches. I put a block of wood under the trans mount and then started taking some pictures that will help me in planning the mounts and headers. I also pulled the passenger side dog house panel out to see what kind of access it provides. The drivers side plate requires taking the steering linkage apart. I will need to modify that so that it can be removed easily. So here are some pictures I took.
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That Studebaker engine sure looks good sitting in that massive engine bay. Kind of makes you wish all cars had that kind of access. Check out the access on each side of the engine.
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Then I looked at the clearance for the bell housing and scattershield set up. The rules state that if a scattershield is not available for the engine make then a shield must be made out of 1/4" minimum thickness and must cover 360 degrees of containment. So I will have to add some material to replace the part that has been cut away. Minor issue but it must be addressed. As a former tech inspector I know that almost always I could find something that I felt wasn't up to the rules standards. So I always try and meet every rule and then some in the hopes I only have to deal with the interpretations of the rules, not the intent.
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Drivers side view.
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Passenger side view. I also took some shots looking from under the car up at the engine to see how much clearance there is to run the four inch and 7/8" tubes from the head to the frame. Looks like there is plenty of room for headers. I plan to use the rearward mount ears on the block for the engine to frame plates. So these pictures assured me that I will have all the clearance I need to make a smooth flowing exhaust system. I also measured the right and left sides for a Moroso external oil pump. Lots of room for that too. Here are the photos I took.
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Passenger side photos.
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Then I became thankful to the Burke Family for their design of the engine dog house. The side panels are held in place with Dzus fasteners. I took the passenger side panel off and WOW what access. Talk about easy plug changes. The back panel comes off too so you can access the distributor. So thinking ahead pays off. Try not to feel too jealous as you look at these photos. All you have to do is cut up your pristine car and you too can have access.
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So I need to get the car back on the ground and inside so I can get things lined out and make the mounts. I don't want to put it on the ground until the lettering guy does his thing since the car will be easier to letter up and level. So I wait and do what I can till he is finished.
Dan
_________________
Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.

R5 Lark · Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:31 pm Post subject:

Happy Valentines Day everyone!

Dan, I went through my stuff here and dug out the turbos from my Street/Roadster Racing Days. Spent the afternoon cleaning them up. They are good to go racing.

Found the hangers and cleaned them up for shipment. Both units spin freely and have no shaft wobble. They are already clocked for each manifold mounting. You will need AN lines for oil input and drainage to the oil pan. I think the gating is set around 12 lbs. I will have to check. Gates are adjustable and boost can be set wherever we need it for the power and strength of the 259.

I use to low boost them on the street with modest 4-5 lb gating. What fun days playing with the street cars from stop light to stop light. At the track I set them 12 lbs plus. They don't spin much at idle but make sure your helmet and seat belt are on from 2000 up. Very Happy

Oh, and I will need these back after qualifying. Tom C

SilverHawkDan · R3/R4 Member Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 258

Tom,
Do you happen to have any pictures of the set up on the car for reference? It could save a lot of pictures being sent back and forth. It all looks self explanatory. The only thing you didn't picture was the air intake into the turbo. Do you have any of the tubing ect? So let's keep posting and enjoy the ride.

Dan
_________________
Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.

R5 Lark · Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:09 am Post subject:

Don't have many photos from that time period. Was at my elder brother's place yesterday and ironically he gave me some old photos of cars we both owned and toyed with as far back as 1960. Here is one of them that got saved.

This was around 1993-94 because I painted it white in 1995. I think I still have the down piping. Will look. The filtering is straight forward on the inlets. I found that the best performance came from combining both turbo outlets into a nice Y just before the carb. So air entered the carb in one tube. The carb (AFB) at that time though was very sensitive to the angle of the bonnet. Will see if I have some engine photos stuck away somewhere.

In those days I had few dollars for race funding. Yound kids and a big mortgage had to come first.

SilverHawkDan · R3/R4 Member Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 258

Tom,
That was one cool car. Looks like it had the turbo's on it. Made for a fun ride I'm sure. So what intake manifold and carb are we using? Also I am having an ice water aftercooler built for the car and could incorporate it to this set up. Would that work?

Dan
_________________
Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.

SilverHawkDan · R3/R4 Member Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 258

Hey Everyone,
I think the last few posts have left some of you quite confused. So to clear the air, Tom Covington (Yes, that Tom Covington with the White Super fast Avanti) has agreed to loan me his twin turbo set up from his past racing days. Studebaker of Lompoc (Tom Mc Caffery) has offered me two engines for consideration for El Mirage. To refresh your memory the plan is to take the car to El Mirage on may 14-15 to get the car certified and to shake it down and help me get used to it. The plan calls for me getting my 125 and 150 licenses. I also have some other people in mind for licensing. More on that later. Lompoc Tom has a 224 and a 259 engine. They both have been sitting for years but he did all the right things when he stored them. Proof of that is the fact that when he tried to turn them over this weekend they both turned over. So far so good. Next I will pick them up and do a closer inspection to see which engine we will use. Tom C. wants to fly out and help with the tuning and set up for El Mirage. Are the Studebaker guys amazing or what. So Lompoc Tom if you read this before you get my call tomorrow, yes Tom and I would like to take both engines.

So barring any major set backs it is looking like we will be ready for El Mirage with about 300+ HP and plan to have a lot of fun. So keep checking back as it is going to be fast and furious. Now just in case you don't think my family is behind this project think again.
Today at lunch my middle daughter (Danielle) gave me a cool Birthday present. She bought me the motor and trans mounts for the car. I mean what else do you buy a guy who has everything but needs a project to keep him off the streets at night? The engine plates are due back this week and I hope to start the mount fabrication this week and finish the firberglass repairs. I'd mention the lettering but you are already familiar with that story.

So I hope that clears up any confusion. If you have a better engine that you would love to loan to us until June let me know. Always looking for the best we can get. Keep checking back often.

Dan
_________________
Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.

R5 Lark · Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject:

Yes, the ice water intercooler would certainly be a plus in the desert and drop the boost temperatures. The piping is going to need to marry up into a single feed to the carb anyway and the ice box junction could serve that purpose. I'll supply the carbs and intake manifolds. I've got a R-2 carb and several Holleys already set up for boost. Lots of fuel jet choices.

I want have the heads ready til March at the earliest. I am waiting on a cam grinder to give me a regrind quote on a R cam I have.

Starting to get "desert fever" here. Surprised

Go ahead an locate a dyno shop that uses a Mustang Model dyno. That model can simulate air drag resistance correction in the rear wheel run. tom c

Karl · Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:42 pm Post subject:

Hi Dan,

Pictures of spare block i have to offer Very Happy

Didnt see above post. but its here if you need it. Wink

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SilverHawkDan · R3/R4 Member Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 258

Karl,
I know things around here are tending to move rather quickly. So I have noted the spare block that you have and may need it. Not sure until I check out the other engines. Good to know I have resouces to draw from. Thank you for making the offer. It is good to know that people care and want to be part of this build.

Dan
_________________
Grew up Studebaker. Family had a maximum of fourteen at one time. Drag raced successfully in Southern California. Wanting to re-live the days. Going to be flying down the salt in the Burke Avanti in 2010. 200 MHP? maybe.

Karl · Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:01 am Post subject:

Dan.
Question ,How much motor You looking to build. Could maybe save you some time and money. Wink

Karl
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PlainBrownR2 · Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:21 am Post subject:

Hey Tom I saw your turbo pictures there, I can't help but jokingly ask; Have you been in my parts pile? We both have similar turbos with similar copper wires on the wastegate to replace the cotter pins.

We seem to share the same love for copper wire being used as cotter pins on the wastegate . Cool