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1949commander
Cruiser Member
USA
100 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2005 : 08:32:02 AM
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I have an inquiry to anyone who has an electric fuel pump on their car
with 6 volt electric system. My question is as follows: What type of
pump do you have? And where did you buy it. I would also like to know
how you feel your pump performs. I have a 1949 Commander and have given
up on making the mechanical pump perform in hot weather, I have all
shields in place and still get a vapor lock in the (fuel pump) not just
the carburetor any time its about 80 degrees. I am trying to get this
car 100% for Omaha next year. This fuel pump problem is the only thing
I have yet to beat. I have a Walbro bellows type on there now but it
seems too delicate. I am looking for a solid state 6 volt if one exists.
Thanks 
Brian R.
Restore it, don't replace it.Keep the Studebaker reproduction industry going |
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gecoe
Cruiser Member
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 08:46:29 AM
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I solved the same problems along with the oil puking issue with a CarQuest E8011 diaphram pump on my 50 Champion.
Gerry |
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Mike Van Veghten
Commander Member
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 09:20:54 AM
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As I've mentioned before...
Mounted
to the back of my 6 volt, pos. ground, 6 cylinder, Conestoga is a
Carter P4594 (12 volt) fuel pump. Even on 6 volts, I needed to install
regulator to lower the pressure. I also just swapped the power wires to
make it run correctly on the positive ground.
All is well...works fine. Will a 12 volt item work on 6 volts of power, sure, just slower.
Why
you ask a 12 volt? The system will eventually be a 12 volt, negitive
ground, 299 V-8. But I wanted to drive it untill all the swapping is
completed. |
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60Lark
Regal Member
USA
460 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 10:10:34 AM
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What pressure is the 12 volt pump maintaining on the 6 volt system? And what pressure should it be maintaining?
Studebaker Fever
60 Lark
51 Champion
Phil |
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Commander51
Regal Member
253 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 10:46:42 AM
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I've got a 6 volt pump on my '51 Commander, and have installed a
pressure regulator to deliver 4-5 psi. Pump is near the tank, regulator
just upstream of the original pump in the engine compartment.
Regulators are cheap ($10) and available at NAPA. |
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1949commander
Cruiser Member
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 11:36:20 AM
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Commander51
What type of pump do you have? And where did you get it?
Thanks
Brian R
Restore it, don't replace it.Keep the Studebaker reproduction industry going |
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Mike Van Veghten
Commander Member
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 11:55:16 AM
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60Lark,
When
I hooked it up and the regulater adjusted to 6.5 lbs from a previous
car, the pump was still putting out a little over 5lbs. at 6 volts!
For the flat head six, I adjusted it to 3.25lbs. at a no load idle
No problems on the street or freeway. |
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Mr.Biggs
Commander Member
USA
11182 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 12:31:12 PM
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'49,
Have you TRIED adding a gallon of diesel when you fill up This has solved a-many a vapor-lock frustration.
Miscreant at large.
1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS |
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60Lark
Regal Member
USA
460 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 12:46:31 PM
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Mike,
Thanks
for the info, I have an electric fuel pump on my 60 Lark, that went
caput last week end, I do not remember what it was rated for and I can
see no numbers to tell me the rated psi. It did not have a pressure
regulator installed with it. I ordered a Carter electric fuel pump from
Summit that is rated for 7 PSI and I was not sure if I needed a
pressure regulator or not, but just in case I also ordered a regulator
that is rated for 3.5 to 8 psi. and figured I would set it at 5 psi to
start with and go from there. I also am going to install an electric
fuel pump on my 51 champion, just because it is much easier to start
especially on cold starts.
Studebaker Fever
60 Lark
51 Champion
Phil |
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Tom B
Commander Member
USA
1239 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 7:48:05 PM
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Sometime in the past 2 years, The Co-Operators in TW reported on 6V
fuel pumps and recommended one (I can't remember it's name or number.)
I went to NAPA and ordered one, they took the number and came up with
what I got. It is a rotary vane pump, with soft rubber vanes and no
valves. The regular pump will pull through it, and it will overcome the
evil vapor lock. It's wired so either polarity can be ground, wired
through the ignition and the Fog Light switch on my '53 Commander (no
fog lights). I have tried the gallon of Diesel fuel, it still vapor
locks at 75 deg f., and at a flip of the switch, the electric pump
overcomes the vapor lock. I run without it until problems occur, then
turn it on.
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI
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Mr.Biggs
Commander Member
USA
11182 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 8:00:32 PM
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Tom, ya know what's odd (besides me ) I live where summer temps top 100 for days at a time. In fact, this year set records for continuous days with 100+ temps . And yet I've never had to use the diesel fuel trick to alleviate vapor lock!
This is with my Lark ragtop and Transtar truck - both of which are V8s with mechanical fuel pumps. Why is this?
And here in the valley, we have to deal with fuel blended to reduce
smog since we've got it worse than Los Angeles - if you can belive that!
Tom, I'm not saying you're not experiencing vapor-lock. I'm just
incredulous that I can drive my two stock Studes on blazingly hot
afternoons and never have a stumble. How could this be?
Miscreant at large.
1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS |
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gecoe
Cruiser Member
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 10:15:55 PM
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Bob, I'm sure the vapor lock problem has a lot more to do with under
the hood temps than ambient temps. An engine running on the hot side
coupled with a design that disperses engine heat poorly was my problem.
I would have kept fighting the problem in Clara but after her fourth
mechanical fuel pump started pumping oil out the vent holes I gave up.
As you know, I got relief from the diesel addition but now, my
pressurized gas doesn't boil so readily and I don't need it.
The
electric fuel pump I choose was a 2 wire type that allowed using it
with pos ground. Also, it is rated at less than 6 lbs. pressure so I
didn't have to install a regulator with it. I just wired it through an
oil pressure switch and use it full time. I even wired in a primer
button for awakening her after long naps.
It sure was nice this
past weekend to be driving with a number of other Studes and not be the
one that was stricken with the dreaded vapor lock problem .
Gerry
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Mr.Biggs
Commander Member
USA
11182 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2005 : 12:48:04 PM
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Cool Deal, Gerry! Glad to hear Clara's been showing herself a bit. With
gas over 3 bucks a gallon here, I'm thinking about dragging that Champ
6 up from out back and breathing new life into it!
Miscreant at large.
1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS |
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Tom B
Commander Member
USA
1239 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2005 : 2:47:01 PM
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StudeBob, Where are the fuel pumps on your Lark and Pick'em up? The
pump on my Lark VI is down at the bottom of the block, and has never
missed a beat. The one on my '53 coupe is right behind the fan, at the
top of the block. Vapor lock stranded me once, with my better half
along for two hours in a strange (to me) town, and on the same trip,
until I covered the pump with ice in South Bend. True, temps were in
the 90s, but lately it's been every time I take it out, it wants to
stumble. I just turn on the pump and as Mr. Gleason used to say,
"Awayyyyy we go."
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI
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curt
Commander Member
USA
1180 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2005 : 6:48:46 PM
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I had a 6 volt low pressure Carter ( Federal Mogal) pump on my 6 volt
pos ground Kaiser. It works, just get the Auto parts store to look the
# up undre Federal Mogal--Carter. It is a non diaphram pump; alcohol,
etc will not age the pump's working mechanism. I ran it through the
mechanical pump. Flip the electric pump on after a long non-running
period and the car would start up on one try. If vapor lock hit ,flip
pump on and vapor lock over. |
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curt
Commander Member
USA
1180 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2005 : 7:00:24 PM
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| ELECTRIC PUMPS should be mounted close to the gas tank. Electric pumps push, not pull. |
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Commander51
Regal Member
253 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 7:36:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 1949commander
Commander51
What type of pump do you have? And where did you get it?
Thanks
Brian R
Restore it, don't replace it.Keep the Studebaker reproduction industry going
Sorry Brian, pump came with the car--but some good leads from other posts... |
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1949commander
Cruiser Member
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 11:27:01 AM
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Update:
I
bought one of the CarQuest E8011 pumps its just like the 12 volt one my
brother has on his 78 Dodge D300, It works great and it says it is
Gasohol approved. As long as I have the electric on it runs fine in the
hot weather.
The vapor lock problem is really bad on the cars
with the Commander 6, I believe the reason why this is so is due to the
fact that there is not much room between the frame rails and the
engine. I also notice that there is airflow coming out of the driver’s
side of the hood in the gap between the hood and the fender. If you
observe the air flow from the fan the air all seems to blow to the
drivers side of the engine. I know of another club member that has a 48
Commander and he warned me about the vapor lock problem on his car. It
boils all the way down into the fuel pump. Then the fuel pump gets an
air lock and the only way to clear it is to force the gas to the pump
from the tank. Also when you check the component temperature the fuel
pump is so hot you can't touch it. Even with the air diverter tube they
have to try to cool the pump!!
Where as my dad's 60 Lark runs just fine and the fuel pump is much cooler to the touch.
Thanks Gerry!!!
Brian R.
Restore it, don't replace it.Keep the Studebaker reproduction industry going |
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whizzo
Champion Member
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 4:26:31 PM
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My 1949 Commander 6 has two heat deflector shields on the passenger
side, one above the fuel pump and one below the carburetor. Also has a
4" hole low down in radiator suppport with a hose bringing in cool air
from in front of radiator to near fuel pump. Looks like the factory
made lots of attempts to beat the heat.
John Larkin
Speaking of Studebakers
Mid-Missouri SDC
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gecoe
Cruiser Member
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 5:39:52 PM
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You're welcome, I'm glad it worked for you. However, unless I missed
something you're only half done with the installation. If for no other
reason than safety I suggest you wire the pump through an oil pressure
switch. That way, in the event of an accident you won't have an
electric pump feeding fuel to a fire. Even if something like that never
happens you may find that the car can tend to flood during a hot start.
Without oil pressure there will be no additional fuel during those
starts. Also, if your car sleeps for extended periods you may want to
wire in a primer button for quicker starts.
Gerry |
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1949commander
Cruiser Member
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 08:50:23 AM
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Gerry,
I
plan on making the wiring changes this weekend. What oil pressure
switch did you use?? Stock later Stude Switch or something else? I also
plan on going one step further by wiring it to work when the starter is
engaged to bypass the oil switch when starting. This will make it like
a modern fuel injection car. I am doing all this through a relay so the
pump gets power from the battery through the relay and the oil switch
and iginition operate the relay. This is the only problem area I have
had with the car so I want to fix it the best most reliable way I can.
Brian R
Restore it, don't replace it.Keep the Studebaker reproduction industry going |
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gecoe
Cruiser Member
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 10:17:45 PM
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OK everybody, please don't throw rocks!
I used GM part number 3986857.
These were used on 71 through 77 Vegas and Astras. They are also listed
as part number 25504803 for 75 through 80 Buick Starfires. They are a
3-wire switch with two of the wires making contact when sufficient oil
pressure is reached and the third providing power to an oil pressure
warning light during low pressure.
I think you will find plenty
of fuel to start you engine under most circumstances without the pump
being turned on. Very possibly you could find, as I did, that the
engine tends to flood on hot starts if the pump is running. You might
want to hold off on the bypass circuit for starting. If you should have
a need for such a circuit it could be accomplished by a momentary
primer circuit that would give you more control over fuel during starts.
Gerry |
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