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PlainBrownR2
Commander Member
USA
1901 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2010 : 8:19:06 PM
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Hello,
Since the Racing forum is currently indisposed at the moment, I need a little age and wisdom on this subject   .
On the Lark, I have an R2 carburetor, that while replacing some intake
manifold gaskets to resolve an idling problem, that I discovered that
one of the carburetor's mounting tangs is cracked. Turning up another
carburetor for parts has yielded little results, therefore I was
wondering:
Can the R2 carburetor be converted to use an
Edelbrock base with a Carter top? If not, that nulls out the subsequent
set of questions  .
What model of Edelbrock can be used for the conversion (1403, 1404, 1406, etc)?
What jets, rods and springs need to be used for the conversion?
Are there any vent holes to seal and redrill in the base?
Any other modifications that need to be done to use the Edelbrock base?
Is
there anything different about the Edelbrock base that will not allow
this to work? We picked up some regular R1 carbs, but when we flipped
them over we found the warming passages were completely different. 
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IMJ
Champion Member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 8:55:19 PM
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Hello,
I
certainly don't have the wisdom but I do know that a friend of mine has
an Edelbrock with a Carter AFB top on it. I do not know what model he
has. Sorry I can't be more help, I just replied so you know it is
possible. He also bought a new reproduction sealed AFB that I think
Dave Thibeault assembled that looks almost identical to an original.
regards,
Jay |
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PlainBrownR2
Commander Member
USA
1901 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 9:04:27 PM
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One of the things that people have to keep in mind is the R2 carbs are
sealed, meaning there's no vent holes like that on an ordinary
carburetor. I know this can be done with the regular 259/289
carburetors as they vent normally, but I'm wondering if anybody has
done these with the R2 carburetors. These carbs vent internally because
the blower pressure will spray fuel out of the vent holes on a normal
carb. That's not good, particularly on a driver  .
Yeah, if necessary I'll get ahold of Thibeault as he does the conversions as well.
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IMJ
Champion Member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 9:41:54 PM
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The Edelbrock with the Carter AFB top is being used on an R2 my friend
has in his Cruiser. The only problem he had was with the seal at the
accelerator pump stem. He replaced it twice and the third time he got a
kit for a marine application. The later seal kit also came with a new
accelerator pump. The pump stem is plastic but so far seems to be
working.
regards,
Jay |
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Laemmle
Golden Hawk Member
USA
907 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 9:57:09 PM
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Nick Berger in Westminster Ca runs his R2 with a 500cfm Edelbrock!
quote:
Originally posted by PlainBrownR2
Hello,
Since the Racing forum is currently indisposed at the moment, I need a little age and wisdom on this subject .
On the Lark, I have an R2 carburetor, that while replacing some intake
manifold gaskets to resolve an idling problem, that I discovered that
one of the carburetor's mounting tangs is cracked. Turning up another
carburetor for parts has yielded little results, therefore I was
wondering:
Can the R2 carburetor be converted to use an
Edelbrock base with a Carter top? If not, that nulls out the subsequent
set of questions .
What model of Edelbrock can be used for the conversion (1403, 1404, 1406, etc)?
What jets, rods and springs need to be used for the conversion?
Are there any vent holes to seal and redrill in the base?
Any other modifications that need to be done to use the Edelbrock base?
Is
there anything different about the Edelbrock base that will not allow
this to work? We picked up some regular R1 carbs, but when we flipped
them over we found the warming passages were completely different.
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silverhawk
Commander Member
USA
1751 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 10:08:39 PM
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Could you possibly fix the crack? I've heard of JB weld doing amazing things, maybe it would work to seal a crack.
Dylan Wills
'61 lark deluxe 4 door wagon |
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PlainBrownR2
Commander Member
USA
1901 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 10:22:40 PM
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It was considered, well by me anyway. But, for something like this, in
particular if the epoxy doesn't hold, the crack spreads, and suddenly I
have a very lean condition, I'd really rather permanently fix, by
replacing the broken part, than try to patch something like this. Plus,
the crack occurred where the base meets the ear of the mounting tang on
the base of the carburetor. It runs around from the bottom of the carb,
up the tang, and over to the thermostatic choke housing where it
stopped. At this point I'm basically running around with 3 1/4 solid
mounting points on the carburetor, so the JB weld would be more like a
cosmetic fix than a permanent one.
For me, this really is one of those situations where the adage "Fix it right or fix it twice" very strongly applies.
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Milaca
Commander Member
USA
2099 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 11:00:53 PM
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This won't help you, but your dilemma brings to mind something that
recently happened to me. I have a 1965 International pickup with a snow
plow and it would only run with the choke halfway closed, so I took the
Holley 2-barrel apart and put a new repair kit in it. All was going
well until I was torqueing the four mount bolts to the intake manifold
when I heard a 'SNAP'. Yep, I broke a mounting ear off of the
carburetor base.
This made me very upset and frustrated. But, I decided to try it out
anyway and good news! It runs great! This vehicle wont see many hours
of use, so proper repair isnt too critical.
As far as using JB Weld
or other Epoxy, I have found is a waste of time in such an application.
I had a damaged snowmobile carburetor with a broken off mount ear and
tried JB Weld to adhere it back together, but it simply broke apart. JB
Weld may work fine for patching holes, but I dont think it works well
for glueing pieces back together that are subjected to fastening torque.
Autumn at Lake Barget
In the middle of Minnestudea |
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Turbopackman
Champion Member
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 01:30:58 AM
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FWIW, I used an Edelbrock, un-modified, on my supercharged '56 Packard
Patrician with ZERO issues. According to vs57.com, an Edelbrock carb is
safe to use up to 8 psi before you have any problems. You can also use
a marine accelerator pump, which is sealed, if you're concerned about
fuel leaks. I never had any problems, and will use an Edelbrock on my
next forced-induction v8....
Eric Boyle
Packard Engineering, LTD.
Wichita, Ks.
<---Posts may contain anywhere from 30-100% sarcasm---> |
Edited by - Turbopackman on 03/03/2010 01:32:09 AM |
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jallen
Cruiser Member
USA
160 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 02:26:52 AM
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Talk to ErnieR, forum name Bige. I know he has experience with
that combination, I think on his R2 Avanti. And he might have
a thread on the process. |
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okc63avanti
Golden Hawk Member
USA
577 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 06:17:39 AM
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Check out Bob Johnstone's web page on carbs. I believe the correct
edelbrock for an R series engine is the 1406. For a supercharger the
carb fuel pump needs to be sealed. Not sure of exact procedure but a
decent carb shop should know how to do this. If you are not picky about
carb finish and you are willing to pay a little more you can order a
marine 1406 edelbrock carb as it is already sealed.
https://www.studebaker-info.org/
John
   
63R-2386 under restoration & modification
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bige
Commander Member
USA
1262 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 08:14:26 AM
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Good Morning...
Adapting
the Edelbrock using AFB pieces is fairly easy. I've had mine on my car
7 years or so and it's been completely trouble free, gives great
throttle response and full throttle performance.
Things
you MUST do...use the primary venturi clusters from the AFB. The air
vent nozzles on the E Carb are shorter and will be exposed to the air
stream. The car will run but wll run very poorly. I also used the
secondary venturis from the AFB though I'm not sure if it was
necessary. There are subtle differences between the E Carb and AFB
secondary clusters and since it's so easy to change them I just did it.
You
must seal the center screw hole in the back of the AFB top. There isn't
a corresponding threaded hole in the E. I just cut a carb screw down,
filed a nut to fit in the opening and used a small 'o' ring as a seal.
Looks original, doeasn't leak.
I used a accel pump seal from a
carb kit that's a big washer with an 'o' ring. This is where my memory
is a little fuzzy because I believe there was some mixing and matching
of pumps to get a good seal in the bore, a good seal in the top but
also allowing for free movement. If it was real difficult to accomplish
I would have a better memeory of the process.
Options...
I
wanted the carb to look as original as possible so that only the keen
Studebaker eye would notice the change so I removed the large vacuum
port in the from of the E carb, tapped it and plugged with a 1/8" pipe
plug. The threaded hole in the rear works fine for the PCV valve and
contrary to some claims that plugs will foul with the PCV valve back
there I haven't experienced anything like that. In fact It's been 3
years since I changed spark plugs. I also bead blastd the E carb to
match the natural finish of an AFB.
Another
option is to do some grinding on the secondary air valve so that it
lays flat like the AFB. I noticed some surging on full throttle high
rpm runs and felt that the shape and position of the E carb's valve
might cause it to stay closed rather than open at full throttle. If you
look at the pictures you can see that the E carb's valve is not fully
closed and I thought boosted air might get under the valve through that
opening and keep the valve from opening all the way or cause it to
flutter.
Another
option but one I highly recommend is tack welding the linkage in the
spot at the screwdriver tip. The secondaries on both the AFB and the E
carb are activated by a spring. The linkage is there to keep them
closed until you floor it and do give a positive mechanical return
function so your car doesn't take off like a Camry. It has been
suggested that even on the AFB boost may actually over power the spring
and keep the secondaries from opening or cause a fluttering. Since the
E carb was not designed for blown engines I questioned whether the
spring tension was different between the AFB and Edelbrock. I can say
that this mod made a BIG difference. I noticed on the first test drive
that I could feel the secondaries kicking in, not a bog just an extra
pull that was never there before.
As
far as jetting goes you can use your original jets and rods they will
interchange right over to the E carb or experiment. The 1406 that I use
ran very well with the installe 98 Primary and 95 Secondary jets. I've
sinced changed the combo a little but every engine is different so what
works for me may not be best for you.
Some tidbits...I run
without a choke. There have been comments that under boost the choke
can be forced closed but also that the choke has a positive effect on
the air flow straightening the stream under boost. You can adapt the
electric choke to the AFB top with linkage mix and match. I've found
that my car runs and starts fine without it so I just plugged the holes
where the shaft was with some small well nuts and screws.
Mounting
an Edelbrock on a Stude manifold does present two clearance issues. The
choke heat tubes are in the way, they just pull out and you don't need
to do anything with the remaining holes. And the main linkage will hit
the manifold. If you have a stick or never plan to install a GM O/D
trans then just cut the offending extension off. If you have hood
clearance then a spacer would work without altering the carb and help
keep the carb cooler if you use a wooden or phenolic style,
Speaking
of accel linkage, use the big hole. I stuck an appropriate size grommet
in there sandwiched between two thin stainless washers. Acually I
modified that set up a little to give a straighter pull.
Lastly,
until I think of something else, the original AFB had a modified base
to keep fuel from leaking past the shaft bushings under boost. I know
one member who had the done to his Edelbrock. I'm not that skilled but
I've never really had an issue with leakage there or at the accel pump.
I also noticed that for the first few miles there would be a little
bubbling around the pump seal but that went away. I guess things needed
to seat.
Email me at r2r5388@yahoo.com if you have any questions.
BTW,
I wouldn't use a marine carb without checking with Edelbrock first.
Something tells me there is a reason they are different other than
sealing.
ErnieR
 
1988 "Beater" Avanti---R5388 @ Macungie 2006 |
Edited by - bige on 03/03/2010 08:25:33 AM |
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jlmccuan
Golden Hawk Member
USA
852 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 1:36:48 PM
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Just a couple pics of the Carter method of sealing the throttle shafts
implemented on an Edelbrock base. Quick and clean, but I cheat by using
a CNC. You can do the same by hand, though. Pressure from above the
throttle plates comes through the secondary airvalve counterweight well
to the passages milled in the base and around the throttle shafts. The
nice part is the same program works for all the Edelbrocks.
Machined Edelbrock base
Edelbrock on the left, Carter R2 on the right
Jim
Often in error, never in doubt
  
____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________Rabid Snail Racing
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Edited by - jlmccuan on 03/03/2010 1:45:42 PM |
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Topic |
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R2 carburetor Edelbrock Conversion
