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Thread: Avanti II and sunroof option. How many

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    Avanti II and sunroof option. How many

    I recently bought an 84 Avanti and was relieved to find out it did not have a sunroof. I always thought most all the later Avantis, post 75, had sunroofs. Is this non roof car a little unusual?

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    Congrats on a great find. Since the original purchaser had the good sense and good taste to order your Avanti without the sunroof, maybe he maintained it well also.

    Of all the chronic problems Avanti have, the bad idea of cutting a hole in the roof certainly is number one. I've never seen one which hasn't leaked at some time. The repairs are often as bad as the original idea and installation.

    jack vines

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    Jack, I'm with you on that thought. Not only did they leak but the sunroof tray just emptied into the hog troughs. This one is low miles and no frame or trough rust at all. Although it probably saw very little rain anyway.

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    What's the serial number Nels?

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    President Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    When I decided to find an Avanti II I intentionally looked for one without a sunroof. After all these years I figured that would be one problem I didn't want to deal with.

    It seems that after the power sunroofs became available as an option that most cars appeared to be equipped with them...at least most that I've seen. I would think one without a sunroof would be a bit uncommon...all to the good. Someone I know had an '84 or '85 Avanti with a sunroof...he had the roof cut off and a solid roof grafted on. He owned a body shop and had the techs who could do it. A few months after his car was completed and painted he suffered a fatal heart attack. He barely was able to enjoy the car...but that's the minor thing. I've no idea what his family did with the Avanti after that.

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    Silver Hawk Member JBOYLE's Avatar
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    I have to admit, if I ordered a new Avanti II back in the day (I was too young, too poor ) , I'd have ordered a sunroof, especially on a car that expensive.

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    I worked for VW back in 1978 thru 1990,
    My company car was always a new Jetta
    with sunroof. Everyone of them leaked profusely!
    The 78 was dealer installed and leaked the worst, it would let
    water run between the roof panels, down the
    windshield posts, into the rocker panels then empty into
    the footwells. Never a good idea to cut a hole
    In the roof!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 57pack View Post
    I worked for VW back in 1978 thru 1990,
    My company car was always a new Jetta
    with sunroof. Everyone of them leaked profusely!
    The 78 was dealer installed and leaked the worst, it would let
    water run between the roof panels, down the
    windshield posts, into the rocker panels then empty into
    the footwells. Never a good idea to cut a hole
    In the roof!
    Same experience with an Acura MDX. I found out when I went through an automatic car wash.

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    Never a good idea to cut a hole In the roof!
    A sunroof lessens the structural integrity of the car.

    They all eventually leak.

    They all eventually rattle.

    They all eventually fail, usually in the open position.

    I knew instinctively I didn't trust, didn't like, didn't want a sunroof. Unfortunately, most of the better, more expensive cars don't even give one the option. They just include it and charge for it.

    Someone I know had an '84 or '85 Avanti with a sunroof...he had the roof cut off and a solid roof grafted on.
    There's another Avanti out there which had the sunroof removed and a fiberglass panel cut from a wrecked boat was grafted in at great expense, but he'd just had it fighting the leaks and rattles.

    jack vines

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    Quote Originally Posted by 64V-K7 View Post
    What's the serial number Nels?
    The serial number on the door post is RQB 3946

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    Quote Originally Posted by 53k View Post
    Same experience with an Acura MDX. I found out when I went through an automatic car wash.
    I'm betting they have improved since then. My 2008 Impala had one with no leaks and my newer 2013 Impala shows no signs of leakage either at 15K miles. In fact, they have become a tie-breaker on purchasing a newer vehicle.

    Bob

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    [QUOTE=PackardV8;



    There's another Avanti out there which had the sunroof removed and a fiberglass panel cut from a wrecked boat was grafted in at great expense, but he'd just had it fighting the leaks and rattles.


    That's exactly what I did on My '83 'driver' Avanti. Simply ground back around the moon roof opening about 3-4'', then grafted in a 1/8" piece of virgin fiberglass sheet cut to fit. Finished bodywork par usual, repainted roof. (blending into the sail panels)........I liked the moonroof...it operated fine....but I just got tired of chasing leaks.

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    Thanks, That's a sharp car.... Best of luck with it..

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    I just removed my 77 moonroof and replaced it with a piece of roof that Jon Meyers (Tech Forum responders suggested him) sent me (it aligned perfectly so the curves blended together without a lot of filling). The exterior has just been painted so now the only problem is dealing with the low roll bar which (now) hangs 3 inches below the (future) roof lining. I may wrap it in leather … but am open to suggestions. (I believe the SI roll bar fiberglass cover is not deep enough - meant for Avantis without moonroofs).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Springstreet View Post
    I just removed my 77 moonroof and replaced it with a piece of roof that Jon Meyers (Tech Forum responders suggested him) sent me (it aligned perfectly so the curves blended together without a lot of filling). The exterior has just been painted so now the only problem is dealing with the low roll bar which (now) hangs 3 inches below the (future) roof lining. I may wrap it in leather … but am open to suggestions. (I believe the SI roll bar fiberglass cover is not deep enough - meant for Avantis without moonroofs).
    I left the 'low' rollbar cover in place in My '83...and the panel behind it too. I just came up with a solid front section (used new door panel hard cardboard-like material), painted tan to match, and it looks pretty nice.

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    President Member Rerun's Avatar
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    I was thrilled to find my current Avanti which doesn't have the troublesome sun roof. It also doesn't have power windows. What a find!!!

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    MY first 80 had a moon roof and it worked perfect and never leaked, also my 2001 Chevy Pick up with 223,389 miles has one and it also works like a dream and never a drop of water.

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    Silver Hawk Member JBOYLE's Avatar
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    Knock wood....I've never had troubles with the sunroof in my 99 Mercedes or if that's too new, our old 89 Toyota All-Trac wagon (though when we sold it in 99 there was a bit of rust emerging on the metal sunroof panel).

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    I went to look at a `78 over the weekend, needs everything regarding cosmetics, windows and some mechanical. The current owner's solution to the sunroof was a bead of mastic around the seam. He felt that since it was always leaking and one of the cables was failed, the hell with it. If I bid on it (and he accepts), what really is involved in taking it out? Is the roll bar lower in the sunroof cars? Isn't the roof panel just a piece of fiberglass as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by spokejr View Post
    I went to look at a `78 over the weekend, needs everything regarding cosmetics, windows and some mechanical. The current owner's solution to the sunroof was a bead of mastic around the seam. He felt that since it was always leaking and one of the cables was failed, the hell with it. If I bid on it (and he accepts), what really is involved in taking it out? Is the roll bar lower in the sunroof cars? Isn't the roof panel just a piece of fiberglass as well?
    Ken

    Here's the link to Bob's site with the sunroof info you asked for. https://www.studebaker-info.org/rjtechx4.html#Sunroof

    Personally, if the car needs painting or at least touching up and the sunroof is bad, I'd do what Ed talked about and fill it with a curved piece of fiberglass.

    The other way would be to take a plastic coated piece of luaun plywood, screw it to the bottom of the roof (the thin stuff should conform closely, taper the surrounding roof to the hole and give it heck with resin and mat. You should be able to lay up a pretty decent profile and the sand until happy.

    Go underneath and add bonding strips to the joints with West 6-10 adhesive. Should be plenty strong, my rockers certainly are with about the same treatment.

    Hope you finally get one.

    Bob

    P.S. BTW pull the luaun off after you finish the top side. That's why you need plastic or release resin on it.
    Last edited by sweetolbob; Yesterday at 03:07 PM.

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    Gee I must be odd man out as I always have repaired the sunroofs and stopped the leaks with new weather seals. If the water gets under the sunroof structure and rusts and bubbles up the surrounding fiberglass, then that repair is no fun. But I have done it successfully many times.
    I must have done one correctly as it went on to win both the SDC and AOAI best of show in Cedar Rapids and Chicago.
    Last edited by bezhawk; Today at 01:36 AM.

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    I had an 83 Anniversery car with the sunroof. It did delaminate from the roof skin and it was a bear to fix. I used a hack saw blade to saw between the fiberglass skin and the steel sunroof tray. I rebonded it with modern windshield sealant/glue. That worked pretty well. I did not like the fact that the drain hose actually looped up above the bottom of the tray before going to the sail panel and emptying into the hog trough. This loop in the drain hose never allowed it to fully drain. Let's face it, the sunroof was never intended for the Avanti.

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    President Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    If I remember correctly, the sunroof that was used was not designed specifically for the Avanti...it was adapted from a Lincoln. While I'm sure that saved a lot of engineering time and money, rarely does something adapted from elsewhere work out long-term.

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    There were two different sun roof designs. One with the glass sliding panel, and one with the metal. I have the factory spec sheets on the glass type ( used from 78-84)given to me by one of the designers.
    Ernie Wolf right here in St.Louis! His company was Sky-Top Sunroofs LTD. The cable ends are the hardest parts to obtain.
    Last edited by bezhawk; Today at 01:33 AM.

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    I have owned MANY cars with factory sunroofs, from Acura to Avanti to Chrysler to ---. I do not recall any of them leaking, including in storms, going through a car wash or washing at home.

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    President Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    I'm sure a lot depends on the care the car got over the years...whether it was garaged, out in the weather 24/7, etc. Since fiberglass has varying cure rates from one batch to another, it seems understandable that the seals might shrink and allow leaks.

    It was said to me once that for some reason, after the second owner subsequent owners let the cars go to hell and stop properly maintaining them.

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    Taking out an Avanti moon roof assembly is a bear, but it can be accomplished with a lot of swearing and a bunch of metal cutting tools. However, what you will be left with is a trashed interior, an uneven hole surrounded by gobs of factory installed pink bonding agent, rows of roof rivets (or holes), and metal bonding strips that refuse to come out. I used surplus roof fiberglass for perimeter bonding strips and dropped in an exact size and shape chunk of an other Avanti roof. But, even then, blocking out to paint unearthed some more hidden rivets … and the hole is so close to the roof cutout that structural integrity might be questionable.
    I'm glad I did it (the outside looks great) but (because of the goo and left over metal) I won't be able to just glue on another stock ceiling liner and roll bar cover. (Oh, and the foam which surrounded the roll bar was soaked and left the (low) bar coated with rust … which I guess I'll treat with POR 15.)
    So, I guess I'd say, if your interior is OK then you might think of just disabling the motor and caulk the damn glass panel in place. I still have my old glass roof panel if that would be of any help.

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    The big problem was in the drain system. The gutter, trough or whatever you might call it is drained by a small hose. The one in my 83 actually went up hill before turning down into the rear sail panel. This hose can easily clog up and when it does, any leakage past the seal just fills up this area and when you suddenly stop, turn or accelerate you get yourself or someone else wet. Wagonaire owners know what I'm talking about.

  29. #29
    The first Avanti sunroofs were sourced from ASC (American Sunroof Company, which sold and installed sunroofs based on the German Golde design https://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/a/asc/asc.htm) this design of sunroof was also used on the Thunderbird, Mercury Cougar, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and others. So it was a somewhat proven and tested design. The perimeter seal is not designed to be water-tight; some water will trickle past the seal and should be channeled into the rain gutter inside the sunroof tray, where it then drains out through the corner drain hoses. On mine water somehow clings to the underside of the panel and makes it way into the car, instead of draining into the channel. A real character builder during a heavy down-pour. This is on my list of projects to work on over the Winter.

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    I have a N.O.S. roof panel for an Avanti and many other original body panels for sale.
    Robert Kapteyn
    studebaker@mac.com
    Put studebaker in the header otherwise it goes straight to trash.

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