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 Odd Ebay Avanti Listing
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ISpy
Starlight Member

96 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  04:48:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This seems kinda odd..no pics...Just kinda curious...

https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-detroit-autorama-show-car-avanti-r3_W0QQitemZ270442167010QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item3ef79bfae2&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

hotwheels63r2
Commander Member

1898 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  05:17:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Email sent:

"Ebay auctions are not doing well lately without a serial number, engine number, a few pictures and some piece of mind. Take a few pics, lets see what you have here... Is your car one of nine?"

Thank you.

Edited by - hotwheels63r2 on 08/15/2009 05:17:54 AM
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MyStude_Baker
Cruiser Member

USA
123 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  05:30:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes. I never buy a car, or even bid on a car without a picture.

-Glenn


1951 Commander Land cruiser
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DEEPNHOCK
Commander Member

USA
6334 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  05:49:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds like he reads the forum and refuses to market to this playground.

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jimmijim8
Commander Member

USA
1094 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  06:53:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Different folks conduct themselves in like circumstances sometimes quite differently and by some accounts quite weirdly, Whatever. He does make his phone number known. His e-bay listing is little more than a classified print ad appearing worldwide.That's the way I see it. If I was the least bit interested I would give him a call. jimmijim

Stude Junkie+++++++Do it right the f$$$$ Time. Never mind. Just do it right. When youre done your done. You'll know it.
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SteveH
Starlight Member

USA
58 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  07:21:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit SteveH's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I actually saw this car before restoration back in 1999. At the time it was in southern LA and owned by the same gentleman. He seemed to be a pretty good guy, we bought several parts/cars from him in a package deal including a Golden Hawk 400 in pieces, a couple of Chrysler 413 Long Ram engines and TON of Tempest parts. He had quite a collection of all different kinds of stuff. If memory serves me correctly he said he got most of it cruising estate sales. We didn't look real close at the car because of his asking price then was pretty high and the car wasn't in the best of shape (not bad though). It had a white/pearl exterior and I do remember the red interior. Never popped the hood on it or crawled underneath though.

Studebaker classifieds! www.studeswap.com
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JDP
Commander Member

USA
8880 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  09:53:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit JDP's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think from the description, he expects to get 100K for the car, and that sort of buyer will want a hands on inspection.

JDP/Maryland
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jimmijim8
Commander Member

USA
1094 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  11:28:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sherwoo Egberts brought 75,000 on the Mecum Auction {according to their website} in Jan.2009 . jimmijim

Stude Junkie+++++++Do it right the f$$$$ Time. Never mind. Just do it right. When youre done your done. You'll know it.

Edited by - jimmijim8 on 08/15/2009 11:40:36 AM
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hotwheels63r2
Commander Member

1898 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  12:24:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is clearly a phishing ad but its OK when it is something we are looking for. Hopefully I'll get to go take a look, because the email I got back answered nothing.

(still looking for an R2 or R3 4 speed Avanti to buy)

MIKE
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studegary
Commander Member

USA
5480 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  12:26:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

Email sent:

"Ebay auctions are not doing well lately without a serial number, engine number, a few pictures and some piece of mind. Take a few pics, lets see what you have here... Is your car one of nine?"

Thank you.



The eBay listing doesn't try to imply that it is one of the nine factory R3 cars. The listing states that it was retro-fitted with the R3. Of course, being a 1963, it couldn't be an R3 anyway.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer
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ISpy
Starlight Member

96 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  12:52:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the replies...I always learn something intended or not. It didnt really strike me as a scam,just kinda odd you get a super rare high $$ car and no photos but the reasons for this make sense. The few times I have seen it was for a low $$ car. Looked up some info on the seller from the ad,very interesting...












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go-studebaker
Cruiser Member

United Kingdom
249 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  1:31:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi guys,
it may not have a picture, but from the text that guy has been to all the right people for restoration and also know a lot about Studebakers.

If you are going to spend good money you will get in contact with the seller wether there is a picture there or not.

What on earth did we do years ago before ebay and when there were just line ads. I think we called and made appointments..

Greg

Greg Diffen
Australian Stude nut living in Warwick, United Kingdom

1933 St Regis Brougham Model 56 Dutch delivered
1937 Dicator sedan. Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Packard Seven Passenger monster UK delivered
1939 Commander Sedan Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Commander Swiss Cabriolet by Lagenthal
1961 Hawk
1963 Daytona Hardtop
1988 Avanti Convertible
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hotwheels63r2
Commander Member

1898 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  1:47:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yes, my point Gary. Lack of info may be hurting this sale.

When an ad for a car like this says "perfect and pristine" in the same sentence I have no doubt it is a good car and the seller knows what he has here.

By phishing I don't mean he is scamming, he is actually looking for the guys with the money ready to actually buy the car and does not want to deal with tire kickers..

This is a highly prized car, and the ad is clever, aimed way over most of our heads like Jeff noted.

I am actively looking for an Avanti like this one, but not so restored.

MIKE

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bonehead007
Regal Member

477 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  2:14:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
He's had a few negative feedbacks. If someone was legite in selling a car like that, you'd expect to post as much info & pictures as you could.

Next Studebaker I get would be either tru Turning Wheels ads or some of the members that sell thru this site like JDP, etc..



New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together
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nels
Regal Member

470 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  3:10:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Man, I feel like I'm getting old. I looked at this car in 1978 when it was advertised in the Detroit "Trading Post" magazine as a 304 c.i. Avanti. It was owned by a guy with a bar and it was painted white pearl by his son. I think he is the one that redid the seat in leather. I remember the kick palel was a recovered beer carton. Of course that was 41 years ago and I know the car has gone through a significant resto since. It is amazing how these cars have come of age.
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bams50
Commander Member

9213 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  3:46:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

the ad is clever, aimed way over most of our heads like Jeff noted.



Uh... no. Actually way under "our" heads. Having a valuable car does not require good ad-writing skills or even much intelligence. The seller's not "clever", he's bad at marketing, for whatever reason.

I don't see where Jeff inferred that at all

Side not to Nels- you're not getting old, your math is just suspect

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131







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sbca96
Commander Member

USA
2683 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  3:47:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit sbca96's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Both MY front seats are leather, not just the drivers. Share the love!

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires
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nels
Regal Member

470 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2009 :  8:39:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob, you're right, I feel ten years younger!
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jlmccuan
Golden Hawk Member

USA
650 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2009 :  7:26:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit jlmccuan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well, it's back. This time with a couple of pics and an explaination that it was sent out for an R3 refit after the show. Copy of the PO shown.

https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Studebaker-Avanti-1963-Detroit-Autorama-Show-Car-Avanti-r3_W0QQitemZ270444968085QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item3ef7c6b895&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245


Bob's Avanti database shows an ad for this car (not sure of ad origin, but looks like 1999 Turning Wheels based on the "5v" at the end indicating how long it had run - corrections?)
https://studebaker-info.org/avdb/R1000/63R1321/63R1321tw0599.jpg


Jim
Often wrong, never in doubt

____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________Rabid Snail Racing

Edited by - jlmccuan on 08/19/2009 7:34:42 PM
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barnlark
Commander Member

USA
3069 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2009 :  8:04:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting that he thinks the seat was originally leather. The P.O. says the interior was all vinyl, or at least only lists red vinyl. Memories like Nel's are why this forum can be so valuable. What an interesting auction this will be at the end. It's certainly a rare one. Greg's right; we're spoiled by great pictures now. Not this one and may not need it anyway.
The little blurb in the newspaper used to be the best finds simply by showing up first with the cash and a smile when you left.
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55Prez
Golden Hawk Member

781 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2009 :  8:27:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit 55Prez's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good sleuthing Jim McCuan... I tried to get the seller to give me the serial number but just got lip service. I knew the name was familiar..
thanks



Bob Johnstone
www.studebaker-info.org

64 GT Hawk
55 President State Sedan
70 Avanti (R3)
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Swifster
Commander Member

USA
3176 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2009 :  8:38:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK, I'm confused. I understand the value of an R3 engine, but someone explain to me why this car is worth a ton because it was at the Detroit Auto Show. This show has been typically held in January, and in the case of this car, January of '63. The car would have been in production for more than 6 months.

Also, the local dealers typically supplied the cars on the display floor except for 'show cars' and prototypes. This doesn't appear to be either.

Some guy here in Plant City wants $2000 for a badly rusted 289-2V Hawk with a 4-speed that was supposed to be at the Atlanta show. I don't get why an auto show car is that big a deal.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Mulberry, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

1964 Studebaker Commander 170-1V, 3-speed w/OD (Cost to Date: $623.67)

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edpjr
Cruiser Member

USA
229 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2009 :  9:09:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey, maybe I should buy it. With apologies to Mel Brooks and Blazing Saddles; I don't need no stinkin' pictures, serial numbers, or other documentation as long as the Seller says it's a good car.
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jlmccuan
Golden Hawk Member

USA
650 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2009 :  9:49:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit jlmccuan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ed, you have email

Jim
Often in error, never in doubt

____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________Rabid Snail Racing
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r1lark
Golden Hawk Member

USA
896 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2009 :  06:59:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by edpjr

Hey, maybe I should buy it. With apologies to Mel Brooks and Blazing Saddles; I don't need no stinkin' pictures, serial numbers, or other documentation as long as the Seller says it's a good car.


Oh no, not again!

Paul
Winston-Salem, NC
Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com
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billmdonn
Cruiser Member

USA
124 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2009 :  1:27:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by edpjr

Hey, maybe I should buy it. With apologies to Mel Brooks and Blazing Saddles; I don't need no stinkin' pictures, serial numbers, or other documentation as long as the Seller says it's a good car.



Wasn't the phrase "I don't need to show you no stinkin badges" from Treasure of Sierra Madres with Humphrey Bogart.

"I know nothing"

Sargent Schultz

Edited by - billmdonn on 08/20/2009 3:22:51 PM
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warrlaw1
Cruiser Member

Canada
242 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2009 :  1:44:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Billmdonn knows his film classics. Walter Houston directed and also appeared in the film, I believe. Now pass me a Winston cigarette and a Utica Club beer with no artificial bubbles! And those hills were the Sierra Madres

Edited by - warrlaw1 on 08/20/2009 1:46:19 PM
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bams50
Commander Member

9213 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2009 :  2:06:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pretty easy to verify this car, since Myer's is said to have done work on it.

I'd love to see where this ends up, followed by the same car in a Steinkamp or Poulos listing. Another car just begging for a quality listing and pictures... the car deserves it!

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131







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jlmccuan
Golden Hawk Member

USA
650 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2009 :  2:12:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit jlmccuan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not sure it will make the $70K the seller says he'll take in the listing, at least not on EBay. I don't dispute the value, but the salesmanship is lacking. Even though the car should stand on its own merit, I think the first failed listing should have proven the quality of the listing should at least be equal to the quality of the car. What is the Ebay fee for a $70K car sale? I think I'd try to get my money's worth if that's the sales venue I chose.

Jim
Often in error, never in doubt

____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________Rabid Snail Racing
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studegary
Commander Member

USA
5480 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2009 :  3:06:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do not think that auto show cars are worth more than run of the mill used cars, unless they were built with some special feature/change. Some auto show cars are worth less due to the man handling. A sales manager, that I worked for, purchased several vehicles from the New York Auto Show over the years. The vehicles were only special in the sense that they were usually well equipped/optioned. I think that my 1983 Chrysler Executive Limousine may have been an auto show vehicle, but it never mattered to me.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer
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Gunslinger
Cruiser Member

239 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2009 :  3:22:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My '02 Avanti was used in auto shows and some of Avanti Motors print advertising. That...and $1.00 might buy a cup of coffee for anyone interested.

Unless there's some provenance that the car was driven onto the show floor by Andy Granatelli or Raymond Loewy himself, I see no added value beyond some bragging rights. Even then additional value is arguable.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.
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