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maxpower1954
Cruiser Member

108 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2009 :  9:34:49 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
The fan on my R-2 GT Hawk spins about two seconds after shutdown -time for a new viscous fan drive!

Stude part 1560257, but I KNOW there is a direct Mopar/Chrysler interchange, because I did just that some years ago. But I can't find it in my voluminous interchange lists. Does anybody know
what it is? Yes, I would normally get it from one of our friendly vendors, but I just had a large order come in from SI; wanted to try locally first. Thanks, Russ Farris

DEEPNHOCK
Commander Member

USA
6256 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2009 :  9:46:42 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Russ...
Are you sure that makes it bad?
Just curious..
Jeff


quote:
Originally posted by maxpower1954

The fan on my R-2 GT Hawk spins about two seconds after shutdown -time for a new viscous fan drive!

Stude part 1560257, but I KNOW there is a direct Mopar/Chrysler interchange, because I did just that some years ago. But I can't find it in my voluminous interchange lists. Does anybody know
what it is? Yes, I would normally get it from one of our friendly vendors, but I just had a large order come in from SI; wanted to try locally first. Thanks, Russ Farris

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maxpower1954
Cruiser Member

108 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2009 :  10:20:08 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Well, that's what I always thought, Jeff - it was supposed to stop turning with the engine. That's what the one on my Avanti does, and this one did also, until recently. Russ Farris
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bige
Golden Hawk Member

USA
789 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2009 :  11:14:01 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Pretty reliable inicator...

Also, when you rev the engine a bad one will look like it's under a strobe light like the way it looks when you're using a timing light.

ErnieR

quote:
Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

Russ...
Are you sure that makes it bad?
Just curious..
Jeff


quote:
Originally posted by maxpower1954

The fan on my R-2 GT Hawk spins about two seconds after shutdown -time for a new viscous fan drive!

Stude part 1560257, but I KNOW there is a direct Mopar/Chrysler interchange, because I did just that some years ago. But I can't find it in my voluminous interchange lists. Does anybody know
what it is? Yes, I would normally get it from one of our friendly vendors, but I just had a large order come in from SI; wanted to try locally first. Thanks, Russ Farris



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chamberlainbandad
Champion Member

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2009 :  3:31:27 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
most fans should roar when you first crank your car in the morning for a short period of time, this is an easy way to check. it does that because the oil has settled to the bottom overnight. if any oil is leaking out around the shaft you should replace. it will only get worse.

ap
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JDP
Commander Member

USA
8865 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2009 :  3:50:24 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit JDP's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There is not a thermostatic replacement available any more. The repo's work, but are a different design.

JDP/Maryland
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jclary
Golden Hawk Member

USA
912 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2009 :  4:14:22 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
For the ones that I have had to go bad. While the fan is still warm after driving...you can grasp the fan and it will wobble on the shaft. That is a good indicator that the viscous drive has given up the ghost.
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jimmijim8
Commander Member

USA
1067 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2009 :  4:20:55 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Yours is bad. Try to find an NOS replacement. As John says, the replacements are non thermostatic. Just oil filled. Not real durable. Some one needs to come up with a better replacement. A thermostatic brand x adaptation, replacement. Anybody up to the task or has it been accomplished. The Studebaker fan is made to accept the larger bolt pattern clutch. I suppose one might be able to redrill the water pump flange and pullies to accept a GM fan clutch. jimmijim
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Alan
Commander Member

1314 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2009 :  5:09:29 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
75-80 Caddy, the pilot hole has to be enlarged .005". Easy job with a hand reamer.
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jimmijim8
Commander Member

USA
1067 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2009 :  5:34:06 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alan

75-80 Caddy, the pilot hole has to be enlarged .005". Easy job with a hand reamer.

Nice to know. thanks jimmijim
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Mike Van Veghten
Commander Member

USA
1211 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2009 :  8:03:29 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
That fan ISN'T nesessarally bad...!

A BIG question you didn't offer...and no one asked -
Was the fan hot when you noticed it running on?

That's what they are supposed to do when hot...!

When they are cold/cool, they are tight and...yes, should stop pretty quickly.
When hot, they loosen up and spin a few rotations after shut down.

Read up on them..

Mike

Edited by - Mike Van Veghten on 08/04/2009 8:04:02 PM
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Dan White
Golden Hawk Member

USA
731 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2009 :  8:06:16 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Dan Miller in GA makes or did make a kit for Hawks to use a thermostatic fan from a Jaguar. I have the kit on and it works fine. The clutch is from a '85 to '87 XJ6 or '85 to '92 XJS.

You can reach Dan:

Dan Miller: alexmil@comcast.net

I believe he said that there was not quite enough clearance to use this on a Lark. He was selling these at the 2007 Nationals in SB.

The NAPA part # is 261306



Fan Clutch - Thermostatic

Front
Part: TEM 261306
Product Line: NAPA Temp Products
Price Unit 44.99 Each

Attributes
Fan Clutch Bolt Circle Diameter : 1.39"
Fan Clutch Fan Mount Diameter : 2.62"
Fan Clutch Fan Mount Height : 2.25"
Fan Clutch Height : 2.67"
Fan Clutch Overall Diameter : 7.23"
Fan Clutch Pilot Diameter : .75"
Fan Clutch Rotation : Clockwise
Fan Clutch Style : 7" Heavy Duty
Fan Clutch Type : Thermal
Warranty
Limited Lifetime

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

Edited by - Dan White on 08/04/2009 8:22:42 PM
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maxpower1954
Cruiser Member

108 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2009 :  11:48:59 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alan

75-80 Caddy, the pilot hole has to be enlarged .005". Easy job with a hand reamer.



Thanks Alan, but there are at least two different fan clutches for Caddies for those years on the NAPA site - can you narrow it down a little more? Russ Farris
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62champ
Cruiser Member

247 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2009 :  08:00:27 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I got the fan clutch below from Dave Thibault from Maryland for my Champ pickup. Too bad the thermostatic clutch will only work for the Hawks...



1960 Lark 60S-W4
1962 7E7-122



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foobar
Golden Hawk Member

778 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2009 :  08:17:29 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit foobar's Homepage  Edit Reply  Reply with Quote  Delete Reply
What about Allan Tylers mod with a Nissan unit?

https://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/cooling/atcooling/AT-ThermoFan.pdf




Bob Johnstone
www.studebaker-info.org

64 GT Hawk
55 President State Sedan
70 Avanti (R3)
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hotrodstude
Regal Member

USA
318 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2009 :  09:06:05 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
why bother just put a regular flex fan on the engine. you may need a shroud.but i have never had any problems with this system.works for me.

2006,f-150,2x4,v-6,5-speed manual,8ft bed, will post stude info when i get it on the road.
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Alan
Commander Member

1314 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2009 :  12:59:05 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Off the 425, 472, 500 CI. Don't try the ones off the 4.1 aluminum motor.
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maxpower1954
Cruiser Member

108 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2009 :  3:54:14 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Thank you! Russ Farris
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alpayed
Champion Member

Australia
30 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2009 :  04:11:28 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I am a bit confused here. The fan as mentioned by Bob (above) installed on my Hawk works differently to what is described above.
When cold it simply freewheels. As the engine temperature rises the thermo spring on the front which is subject to the hot air coming through the radiator activates the coupling (progressively) When it is very hot the coupling is almost locked giving the most cooling.
To my way of thinking you should be able to spin fan freely, (or with little effort) when the engine is cold. Only when it is hot do you need cooling.
Allan

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foobar
Golden Hawk Member

778 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2009 :  08:29:51 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit foobar's Homepage  Edit Reply  Reply with Quote  Delete Reply
Speaking about function....
I HAD a straight 6 blade fan on my GT Hawk and at road speed, was pretty noisy (3.31 rear).

Earler this year, a T-bow viscous fan coupling and 6 blade, was installed because I wanted to reduce noise and I knew the viscous part would reduce the rpm of the fan, which it does.

But, the fan turns with the engine, all the time. It just turns slower because of the fluid medium. When its hot, the fluid is thinner, but it still pulls a lot of air and the speed and fluxuates with engine rpm.

I believe the point of a viscous coupling is ONLY to reduce the fan speed and allow a larger fan to pull more air thru the radiator.

The function of a thermostatic coupling should be more akin to what Alan said, however, I just gave an original 63 Lark fan/thermostatic clutch to a friend. It was in prime condition and did have a definite resistance to turning it by hand.

Once both types of couplings are functionally worn out, the fan will spin, but do no work or very little. At that point, it is no longer being driven by engine force, just going along for the ride due to frictional reasons.




Bob Johnstone
www.studebaker-info.org

64 GT Hawk
55 President State Sedan
70 Avanti (R3)
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Bob Bryant
Cruiser Member

USA
155 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2009 :  08:30:29 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Not sure if this info is helpful. My viscous fan clutch on my Avanti R-1 was tired. I bought a used unit which did not work as well as the one it replaced, so I changed to a bi-metallic clutch.

In 2006 it was my understanding that viscous fan clutches were no longer available and new units off the shelf of the vendors I contacted were bi-metallic. Both types were referred to as Part #1560257. My new unit needed a little filing, as the milling of the slots for the bolts attaching it to the water pump had not removed quite enough metal. Obviously, there can be some NOS viscous units out there if you can locate them.

It would be interesting to know the manufacturing source of the bi-metallic clutches.

"It's like deja vu all over again."--Yogi Berra
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Dan White
Golden Hawk Member

USA
731 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2009 :  08:40:01 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Bob I think you have it reversed. Bi-metallic or thermostatic whatever you want to call them are no longer available. There may be some NOS out there somewhere but I have not seen any. All the vendors to my knowledge are selling the viscous coupled units now.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT
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hotrodstude
Regal Member

USA
318 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2009 :  11:31:15 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
was the 6 -bladed fan fixed blades? i use flex fans no noise the fan flattens out at high rpm. the blades are flexable but you have to watch putting them on the edges are razor sharp.always wear gloves leather gloves.

2006,f-150,2x4,v-6,5-speed manual,8ft bed, will post stude info when i get it on the road.

Edited by - hotrodstude on 08/06/2009 11:31:58 AM
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Bob Bryant
Cruiser Member

USA
155 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2009 :  12:16:53 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Dan: Thanks for the clarification. My Avanti manual from SNM refers to a viscous fan drive and I assumed the manual content had not been revised. It describes the fluid as being silicone. I won't tell anyone again I have a thermostatic fan clutch! Bob


quote:
Originally posted by Dan White

Bob I think you have it reversed. Bi-metallic or thermostatic whatever you want to call them are no longer available. There may be some NOS out there somewhere but I have not seen any. All the vendors to my knowledge are selling the viscous coupled units now.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT



"It's like deja vu all over again."--Yogi Berra
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Jolly-John
Champion Member

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2009 :  2:43:42 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Hi, Gang. The Flex-Fan has another advantage no one has mentioned yet...its use significantly reduces the weight on the water pump bearing and shaft. This is especially important for the R series engines, where you have that heavy multi-groove pulley to contend with, plus the weight of the fan drive and the metal fan. I know the Avanti water pump has a beefed-up snout, but I still find the original R engine fan set-up is hard on water pumps.

I have two extra Flex-Fans available for purchase. One is new-in-box, and the other is an excellent used Flex-Fan. These are the genuine Flex-Fan brand, and have the correct diameter for our Stude V-8s. These are made totally of fiberglass (no razor-sharp metal blade edges). I have used these very successfully on my Avantis in the past. Just private message or email me, if someone wants more info, a photo, or a price for each. Thanks. John in Wisconsin
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bige
Golden Hawk Member

USA
789 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2009 :  4:03:19 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I can't find any reading that suggests that what you are saying is correct.

I've never had a bad fan clutch allow the fan to continue its rotation on a hot engine when it's shut off nor a bad one stop spinning.

This has been my experience on both thermostatically controlled and RPM type. In fact it has been my experience only a month ago with a defective unit on my '76 Chrysler. Installed a new Evercool unit and noticed the car running hotter than before. After changing the thermostat because I assumed it was something other than the new fan clutch I relented and observed the clutch's operation when the engine was good and hot. It did exactly what a bad clutch will do, spin the fan much slower than a good one will and continue to spin when the engine is stopped. I replaced it and have a nice fast spinning fan, a cool engine and a clutch that locks up tight enough to halt the fan in 1/4 turn when I shut the car off.

I'd rather be wrong with a cool running engine than right overheated by the side of the road.


quote:
Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten

That fan ISN'T nesessarally bad...!

A BIG question you didn't offer...and no one asked -
Was the fan hot when you noticed it running on?

That's what they are supposed to do when hot...!

When they are cold/cool, they are tight and...yes, should stop pretty quickly.
When hot, they loosen up and spin a few rotations after shut down.

Read up on them..

Mike




On its way to a 15.097 Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Spring 2006.

Edited by - bige on 08/06/2009 4:05:16 PM
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alpayed
Champion Member

Australia
30 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2009 :  9:43:47 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
This link explains fairly well how the clutch/couplings work.

.https://www.aa1car.com/library/cooling_fan_clutch.htm

Allan


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60ragtop
Starlight Member

72 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2009 :  2:38:54 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I installed a viscous drive and 5 blade fan on my 60 convertible to try to fix a problem with the engine running hot at idle, long stop lights, in traffic, etc. Problem not solved, but I noticed the fan continues to spin a few revolutions after the engine is shut off. Based on most comments here, this means the viscous drive is not working as intended. Correct? I only ask because there seems to be some difference of opinion.



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GTtim
Golden Hawk Member

USA
684 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2009 :  2:50:35 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I think the link above summarizes it nicely, if the fan/clutch spins easily, it ain't workin.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk
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60ragtop
Starlight Member

72 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2009 :  3:10:39 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Yep, I shoulda read that before I posted....maybe one of those flex fans would solve the problem without undue noise. Not that I mind noise all that much.
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jimmijim8
Commander Member

USA
1067 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2009 :  4:01:25 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Thermatics from Canada were the original manufacturers of the Stude fan clutches. jimmijim

Stude Junkie+++++++Do it right the f$$$$ Time. Never mind. Just do it right. When youre done your done. You'll know it.
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Kenmike2
Starlight Member

USA
75 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2009 :  11:41:50 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Kenmike2's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I use a fan/viscous hub/spacer from a 1978 Plymouth Volare, with 318 engine. This is a bolt-in and fits perfectly on the 56-57 Hawk vehicles. And possibly on many others.
REgards
Ken Michael
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