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 ’53 Automatic Transmission question
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BubbaBear
Cruiser Member

USA
122 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2009 :  10:11:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


’53 Starlight Coupe – 224 In drive it takes off in low. When it goes to shift theres a LOUD scary thump, a little vibration in the transmission, then it catches and is fine. Thoughts? Suggestions?


rockne10
Commander Member

USA
4509 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2009 :  10:36:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First thought is to service the trans. Drain it all out including the torque converter and clean or replace the filter screen.
Refill with Dexron/Mercon. If that solves the issue you've gone the cheapest route. If not, you've spent little and harmed nothing.
DG200 trans with selector in "D" should start in second gear. Shift should feel firm and quick but not frightening.
Someone put a 1955 engine in your '53?
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BubbaBear
Cruiser Member

USA
122 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2009 :  10:48:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, no did I read something wrong. This car is all original. Sat in a garage over 35 years, only 50XXX on it and I have all the info on the original owner. It was placed in storage after it was bought from her.
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rockne10
Commander Member

USA
4509 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2009 :  10:58:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
1953 V-8 would be a 232 cid.
The DG200 is a very strong transmission. I would not be surprised if a fluid flush cures your ills. Also, the vibration could be transmission mount.

Brad Johnson
Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
'33 Rockne 10, '51 Commander Starlight, '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée"

Edited by - rockne10 on 12/17/2009 11:00:20 PM
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buddymander
Commander Member

2095 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2009 :  11:49:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If it really is taking off in first gear, then the only thing that is happening when it goes to second is the application of the second gear band. I wonder if the band has gotten out of adjustment over the years. A sloppy adjustment is worse than no adjustment at all. If a band is way loose it can break upon application. That one might adjust from outside the case, but not sure.
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Mr.Biggs
Commander Member

USA
12671 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  12:59:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
1st gear start was not incorporated into Stude's DG transes until 1954 - and then only in the Champion line. It wasn't until 1955 and the introduction of the DG-250 that V8 cars started out in 1st.

Lotsa years since '53. Lotsa things forgotten along the way. Look at the tag on the rear of the tranny. See what DG model it says it is.


1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1963 Cruiser
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door


Edited by - Mr.Biggs on 12/18/2009 1:00:04 PM
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53k
Commander Member

USA
2194 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  3:00:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BubbaBear


’53 Starlight Coupe – 224 In drive it takes off in low. When it goes to shift theres a LOUD scary thump, a little vibration in the transmission, then it catches and is fine. Thoughts? Suggestions?


Your tranny, if original, starts in second. When it shifts to high it also locks up the torque convertor at the same time. Depending on throttle position, that can be a pretty rough shift, especially if you are comparing it to a modern car.



Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia. '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Daytona convertible, '53 Commander Starliner, Museum R-4 engine, '62 Gravely Model L, '72 Gravely Model 430

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studegary
Commander Member

USA
6322 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  3:46:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As others said, change the fluid in the transmission AND torque converter. Make sure the refill level is checked PROPERLY.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer
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BubbaBear
Cruiser Member

USA
122 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2009 :  10:23:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I probably used the wrong terminology because I am unfamiliar with Stude transmissions. When I said low I meant the gear before Drive.

Can someone give me the complete instructions on changing the fluid including the torque converter. I had it once but can't find it. Thanks.
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buddymander
Commander Member

2095 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2009 :  1:29:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Aren't you going to first make sure the fluid level is correct before anything else? Just from a troubleshooting standpoint; always do the easy simple stuff first.
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studegary
Commander Member

USA
6322 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2009 :  2:00:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BubbaBear

I probably used the wrong terminology because I am unfamiliar with Stude transmissions. When I said low I meant the gear before Drive.

Can someone give me the complete instructions on changing the fluid including the torque converter. I had it once but can't find it. Thanks.



Please use the SEARCH function on this Forum. I type/input too slow to put it all up hare once again.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer
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55s
Golden Hawk Member

Canada
640 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2009 :  4:41:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I own and have driven several 1955s.

Yes, they do tend to "bump" when they lock up, especially with Ford transmission oil. Some people prefer this.

Dexron will smooth out the bump.

Weak point - parking pawl. Be careful when taking the car out of park on a hill, or you will break the pawl.

Paul
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55studeman
Cruiser Member

USA
187 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2010 :  6:10:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello BubbaBear, Thought I would chime in and compile a few things for new DG tranny owners.

Instructions on changing the oil:
1) Warm up the tranny by driving a few miles if possible
2) Drain the pan by one of two methods: A)by removing the oil pan drain plug B) For more thorough draining remove the drain pan and clean out heavy sediment that collects and clean the wire mesh filter at the same time.
*Next up is to Drain the Torque converter
3)Remove the cover plate on the bottom of the T/C housing
4)Put tranny in Neutral,
5)Rotate T/C until you see the drain plug
*I like to rotate the T/C with a big screw driver wedged between the T/C to flex plate bolts
6)Remove T/C drain plug and let fluid empty
7)Replace the T/C drain plug, firm tightness
8)Replace the T/C cover plate
9)Replace the oil pan drain plug
10)Now read and follow the instructions below, copied from another post I did.

FILLING THE DG TRANNY
Use DexIII -merc or better, as the new technology ATF's are very good and there's no bad issues with using this new stuff with old auto-trannys (because modern trannys are increadibly similar on the insides to our old 50's trannys, when you look at the basics of clutch packs, bushings, the stuff that matters when it comes to oil.)

9 liters is the max (+/- a little)-this ONLY applies if tranny AND torque converter totally empty. If during a rebuild, your TC is prefilled with a quart or two when you re-install the tranny (highly recommended), then how much you will need to add will be lower -please be aware of that. If you end up putting in 10, I'd be worried as that is definitely above what the shop manual specifies and it's above the amounts that I have ever seen put in.

With completely empty tranny and T/C, here's fill up procedures:
1. MAKE SURE PARKING BRAKE IS FIRMLY ENGAGED!!!
2. Add 6-7 liters prior to startup.
3. Start engine, immediately put tranny into Drive or Low (either works perfect, idea here is to 1) fill brake band actuators, 2) apply low gear brake band to decrease splatter that gets on dipstick making it hard to impossible to read it)
4. Add an additional quart within first 30 seconds with car running.
5. Check dipstick for level (engine still running)
6. Add additional oil as needed (engine still running)
7. Repeat steps 4-5 until level is just below full.
8. Move gear selector through positions.
9. Now Drive car around block -double check to see if level has changed.
10. Continue driving 10-20 minutes) until engine/tranny at HOT operating temp, then make final oil level check. If overfilled, suck some out, if under-filled top it off.


OTHER NEED TO KNOW INFORMATION FOR NEW DG TRANNY OWNERS
**OCCASIONAL BRAKE BAND ADJUSTMENT IS CRUCIAL -follow procedure below (copied from another post I did -easier that way) Modern cars do this automatically, our 50's cars don't. If you do lots of stop and go driving, where more shifts occur, expect to do this more often, for most it's probably a once every 15,000 -30,000 check.

This is all covered in the shop manual, I'd highly recommend anyone working on the DG to get one, if you don't have it already:
There are three bands, the most forward band is the reverse, the middle is low and the rear is the forward band. All of them are adjusted the same, with a lock nut and an adjustment screw. The low and forward bands are reached via the driver side and the reverse is reached from the passenger side. The idea is to loosen the lock nut and then adjust the band until it is close but not binding on the planetary gear drum. Studebaker specifies a special "band adjustment tool" which is a rare, very rare, item. I have one that I got off ebay, so I made up some instruction to do it without it based on counting the turns of the screw. So far those who have done it, say it works very well -I also did this method for a number of years prior to getting the tool.

So here it is, the shade tree way of doing it,
Stude DG series (150, 200, or 250) brake band adjustment:
Loosen the lock nut (3/4 socket) and tighten the adjusting bolt (5/16 open end socket) until it bottoms out tight against the drum. Next mark the square adjusting bolt so that you can count turns, I did it with "white out" on one edge. Then you want to back off the bolt a certain amount of turns. The exact amount according to the special adjusting tool came out to be 2.5 turns (-this would be the minimum). Prior to getting the tool I did it manually like this and I now remember that I did 3 full turns, which meant it was a little loose but it still worked -only problem with too loose is it will need adjustment more often. There you have it 2.5 to 3 turns. This adjustment is the same for each band, Low, Forward, and Reverse. With it at the correct adjustment, hold the screw with one hand while you tighten the lock nut to roughly 28 ft-lbs -or simply snugged tight.


Well, I hope that helps you and many others. If I failed to outline a procedure properly, my apologies in advance -let me know and I will correct them.


Best Regards,
Eric West
"The Speedster Kid"
Sunny Northern California
Where the roads don't freeze over and the heat doesn't kill you.
And an open road is yours to have -only during non-commute rush hours 9am-4pm and 7pm to 7am (Ha, ha, ha)
55 Speedster "Lemon/Lime" (Beautiful)
55 President State Sedan (Rusty original, but runs great and reliable)

Edited by - 55studeman on 02/02/2010 11:36:57 PM
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dynolou2
Cruiser Member

USA
128 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2010 :  12:24:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another way to adjust the bands, tighten the band adjusting screw on the front band [its for reverse] to 45 inch/pounds and backoff 4 turns. Tighten the center and rear bands to 45 inch/pounds and backoff 3 turns. Then tighten locknuts to 25 to 28 FOOT/pounds. This info came from Trans. Digest article "Band Adjustments on the Oldies" . Lou Cote
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dynolou2
Cruiser Member

USA
128 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2010 :  12:32:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just another thought, your car should have a 2 piece driveshaft. Is the center support for the driveshaft in good condition? If you grab the driveshaft on either side of it, it should not move up or down more than a 1/8 of an inch. Lou Cote
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