Thread: Studebaker Avanti TKO 5 speed install - how to

sweet.

it looks from your pics that the shift lever might use a standard Hurst bolt pattern, maybe you could just buy a stubby straight Hurst lever and then keep the rest of what you've got and then the shift lever would be more or less straight up the middle of the opening in the console? Or just take a piece of round stock, thread the end for a shift knob, and have it welded to the bottom of the T-bird shift lever. something like 548-0185 here?

https://www.hurst-shifters.com/catalo...ftrsticks1.pdf

or 538-7238

https://www.hurst-shifters.com/catalo...ftrsticks3.pdf

in any case, it looks like you have it "together enough to drive" assuming that you've got the driveshaft in, so I'm eagerly awaiting the road test report.

good luck

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
https://members.cox.net/njnagel

Very impressive.

Tom and Dan:

Are you going to use a crossmember on the trans. itself? I know my Lark has none, only the one that goes under the bellhousing itself. I'm not looking to build a race car, but probably an r1, or maybe r2, and I wonder how well the bellhousing and adapter plate would hold up over time between torque forces and just the weight of the trans. hanging freely off the bellhousing? Also, having never had one, how will the case of the trans. hold up long-term with no crossmember?

Thanks again for this thread- Definitely one of the most valuable ever[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

I've heated & bent stock shifters - also cut & rewelded them.

In Mustang circles, most folks eliminate the rubber isolator on the shifter - I think the Mustang uses a different rubber piece though - the T-bird one looks more usable. Been ages since I've looked at a stock Mustang shifter.

But there are shifters avail - check eBay - lots of straight sticks out there. Probably easier to just heat/bend or cut/weld the stick to suit your needs though.

Daddy always said, if yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough & I'm one tough sumbitch!

I do not have on on my Avanti at the time, but I do plan on installing one this winter. I'm sure it would be fine without a crossmember but you just never know. I think the trans case would break before my plate would. I did theroetical dymanic loads via Pro Engineer and the plate well surpassed any torque load spikes a studebaker engine could produce. A crossmember would be easy fab up and they sell the mounts at Autozone for about $25. It is probably a good idea.

Dan Giblin
Cincinnati, OH

Personally I think using the stock crossmember location is best. There
are reasons for this, and I will explain. First is that the Studebaker
front mounts are further forward then GM or Ford by a couple inches. I
think by mounting the trans out at the tailshaft, when you have the
option of keeping the bellhousing one doesnt make sense. When I did a
TH700R4 conversion in my Hawk years ago, I used the tailshaft mount,
since the auto has the bellhousing cast-in. A manual trans keeps the
stock bellhousing, so if we eliminate the bellhousing mount, and add a
trans crossmember, we are mounting the engine/trans at the furthest
points from each other. At first this doesnt seem to matter, but when
the trans is "hanging off the back" only the 100 pounds of weight of
the trans is applied to the adapter plate. If we use the trans mount,
than the FULL WEIGHT of the engine, and the torque loads of the engine
have now been transfered to the adapter plate! "hanging" - the load is
on the top bolts, "trans mount" - the load is on the lower bolts. So I
would rather have 100 pounds on the top bolts, than 700 pounds on the
lower bolts - and thats just at static load! As far as engine torque,
with the trans "hanging" the force goes through the trans to the drive
shaft and to the rear end. As far as I see it, the trans rocks with
the engine, and see no extra loads. With the trans mount arrangement,
I see there be an extra twisting motion being applied to the adapter as
the resistance from the rear wheels comes back against the trans mount.
Just trying to visualize.

Now you WOULDNT want to add an additional third mount, since getting it
all aligned would be a nightmare. It could end up breaking front mounts
or rear mounts as the engine/trans rocks back and forth/side to side.
I havent seen any engine mounting which uses three points like that.

Tom

That makes sense, Tom.

I never considered doing away with the stock crossmember, just adding an extra one at the tailshaft. As you alluded to, the trans. to crossmember connection would have to be fairly flexible.

I'm building more of a touring car, as opposed to a drag-strip beast; so for mine, I'm definitely leaning away from adding one.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

Call it indoctrination, but it just seems odd to see a trans hanging off the bellhousing! I realize it was done like that for years by many of the OEMs, but it seems they all eventually went to what we've got now - with bigger & heavier engine/trans combos. So while I follow your logic, I'm not sure either is better than the other, necessarily. I think the current mid-engine, rear trans mounts are there for convenience as much as anything. But I'd be concerned hanging the trans off the bell due to it being aluminum vs the cast iron the old 3-spd is. But like I said - it could just be indoctrination!

I don't think a cradle-type support fabricated to mount up under the trans would be hard to align - the factory didn't even try with most cars - there's slotted holes in the crossmeber. There's also plenty of give in a stock rubber mount.

I hope to get to mine this spring - we'll see if I fab a mount or not...

Daddy always said, if yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough & I'm one tough sumbitch!

I like to add the rear mount, but install the mount bolts so the mount floats rather than be pulled down tight. Newton never had a 5 speed fall on him. That apple got his attention though.

Not worth much, but here's a company that deals with Tremecs, mostly for MoPars. I saw one they did for a Challenger- beautiful piece!

https://keislerauto.com/

Can't wait for your First Drive report!![8D]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

quote:Originally posted by bams50

Can't wait for your First Drive report!![8D]

Me neither, but its back on the back burner again.

Tom

Just so I can feel as though I am getting something done on it, I took
the shifter stick to a local welding shop on the way to the hospital.
I left them a drawing and instructions as to how I wanted the bends to
be drastically reduced. They quoted 40 bucks and it will be done in
the morning tomorrow. All I need now is a white ball.

Tom

OK, they did a great job on the shifter stick, here is a picture with
the rebent stick on a drawing showing the original bend.



I also got a shifter ball from one of the helpful guys on the Mustang
forum, its a Hurst white ball, has some blistered paint, but the price
was right - free!



Unfortunately, the thread on the T-Bird stick is a 12mm X 1.75, and the
Mustang ball is smaller. So I bought a 12mm tap.



Tom

Got a little time to mess with the Avanti again, redrilled the Hurst
shifter ball and attached the rebent shifter stick. To tighten and
also install the front passenger side shifter bolt, I had to dremel a
hole inside the climate control box. I will make an aluminum plate
to seal out fumes.



Here is the console top back on, the boot and the shifter ball. It is
quite nice feeling it through the gears. I havent been able to drive
it yet, maybe next week.









Tom

If that thing drives as good as you made it look you have really got something!

1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, 1947 M5. Searcy,Arkansas

Tom, I've been following along on this thread..

It's really lookin' good! Make a video for us when you drive it for the first time. [^]

Matthew Burnette
'59 Scotsman
'63 Daytona
Hazlehurst, GA

Thanks guys .. I sure hope it works as well as it looks. I wanted it
to look as factory as possible.

Tom

you haven't driven it yet? I'd have been doing donuts in the Safeway parking lot two days ago. Isn't it just driving you nuts sitting there not moving?

nate

(OK, maybe following my advice isn't always a good idea, but still...)

--
55 Commander Starlight
https://members.cox.net/njnagel

Tom's too busy looking after his ill wife; hope she's feeling better Tom!

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

Nate ... yes .. its driving me crazy. Shes doing better - kinda, but
now we have RAIN here. How often does it rain in Southern California?
I think its just to keep me off the streets in the Avanti!

Maybe Monday? Maybe?

Tom

I was looking at TREMEC stuff on eBay and came across this in a listing, and thought it was interesting- never heard of it before:

this is a very nice slightly used faceplated Tremec tko600. this transmission was built by Paul at Liberity Transmissions. this trans is faceplated in 2nd 3rd and 4th gear for positive shifts. Tremec transmission are known for not shifting well above 7000 rpm but this one WILL. 1st and 5th gears are still syncronized for easy street driving. this trans sell for $1974.00 most places and Liberity charges around $800 to faceplate them. here is what Liberity say about faceplating: 08 2.87-1.89-1.28-1:1-0.64

"Pro shifting and face plating eliminate the need to worry about missed shifts. This is made possible by removing the stock synchronizers and opening up the engagement window for faster, higher RPM shifting. This does not make your transmission clutchless, the shock load of shifting without the clutch will cause severe damage to your transmission.Initially, the cost of face plating is slightly more than pro shifting, but in the long run you will find that face plating is more cost effective due to less wear on engagement components With pro shifting, the shift lugs engage on the inside of the slider and as the pro rings wear from normal use, they burr up and require dressing, deburring and/or replacement to maintain smooth shifting With face plating, the engagement lugs are on the face of the slider which will not allow them to burr up and require maintenance. The design of the face plate shift lugs give them more contact area which makes them much more durable, so longevity is increased dramatically (about three to four times longer than a pro ring) and there is virtually no chance of popping out of gear."

I thought this info on "face plating" might be of interest to those learning from this excellent thread!

For as long as it works, here's the eBay link:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/treme...em170183932823


Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

I got the Avanti out of the garage and drove it around town last night.

All I can say is it feels like a different car. One thing I noticed
right away was raising the trans up eliminated the contact of the
engine and the firewall, the TKO is shorter, so the tailshaft doesnt
contact the X-member - there are a LOT less noises! Since I still have
to fill the hole on the floor I cut to access the front shifter bolts,
I can hear the trans VERY well. I have been told that Tremecs are not
the quietest trans in the world, and to expect noise. I hear a gear
whine in 1st through 3rd, with 4th being quiet. 5th gear is a little
hard to engage, I went into 3rd twice, bounced off reverse trying to
get back into 4th. Its hard to get used too. Its weird being able to
downshift into 1st or reverse while moving!! Once in 5th gear it had
a different noise, mostly under load/low rpm. It might be from using
the Dexron III and not GM syncromesh. The idea was to see if I had a
leak, but the trans seems sealed fine now. I have been told that GM
Syncromech is thicker and quiets the trans.

Take off was amazing, you would think that I installed a more powerful
engine at the same time. The lower first gear is sure noticeable.

It was a short drive, but I found that my oil filter block is leaking
and I just replaced the gasket. I need to make a new gasket (the one
in my old gasket set from 20 years ago might have been dryed out) and
put it back together. I cant drive around with oil dripping off the
passenger side head pipe.

Tom

Congrats!!

quote:Originally posted by sbca96

I have been told that Tremecs are not
the quietest trans in the world, and to expect noise. I hear a gear
whine in 1st through 3rd, with 4th being quiet. 5th gear is a little
hard to engage, I went into 3rd twice, bounced off reverse trying to
get back into 4th. Its hard to get used too.

4th should be straight through - no side-loading on input/output shafts/gears/bearings - that's why it's quiet.

On the hard to engage, a longer drive may help as the oil warms up, but that's a stab in the dark.

Daddy always said, if yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough & I'm one tough sumbitch!

Tom,

E-mail me your address and I'll drop you a "fresh" new one in the mail. N/C, of course. I hope your wife is getting better, I know it makes things tough when "One of the Team" is not running on all 8 cylinders. My thoughts are with you.

Dan Miller
Atlanta, GA

[img=left]https://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

The 5th gear not engaging, or engaging hard at too low an rpm, that might be the common problem found with alot of newer cars with these multiple five and six speed setups. If I remember right it was a case of a particular tranny design from the factory made to fit multiple engine applications, some with some fairly low horsepower ratings that don't quite "fit" the design of the
tranny. I could be wrong on that aspect, but I know it took alot of rpm's, particularly on the import cars, to use up all of the gears. Unless the people really wind the engine out or they're going for the far end of the speedo, they end up using only five gears of the six that are available on a normal point A to point B commute.

Other than that, thats cool to see that setup, of which sounds like its working fairly flawlessly. [8D]

Course the other option in this instance is to now work over the engine to get the horsepower/torque rating up

I have a situation similar to your wife's. Uneligible for islet cells for the diabetes they said(this treatment has research that is yearssss old). Here's a new experimental injection, would make your stuff obsolete they said. Well few weeks in and the new fangled insulin stops working(middle of the night of course). Pegs the meter and starts to damage the kidney while I bring readings back to normal. Alright how to fix it, this is my long trusted endocrinologist that we pondered this with, not the yoyo that gave me the new insulin. Well we'll prescribe Altace for the kidney, just a small dose is needed. Somewhat expensive, never discussed much, but very effective for kidney, eyes, etc. Immediately after, the kidney readings at the checkup for the blood draw and urine test came back down to nearly nothing. I was also asked to drink more than plenty of water to flush the system out, which is never a bad idea.


1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
[img=left]https://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
[img=right]https://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
[img=left]https://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
[img=right]https://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]

Yah, talking to the Mustang guys tonight at the burger joint told some
tales of 5th gear being "difficult". If the RPM/engine load is one of
the issues, that could very well be the case, I was going about 50 mph
when I tried to engage 5th. I asked about the odd noise in 5th and it
was pretty clear they just make noise - period. Regardless, I wouldnt
go back to the T-86 for ANY reason. The shifter barely moves now from
gear to gear and just playing around a little felt like an automatic
in how long it took to shift. I will be VERY interested to see how it
effects my 0-60 on the G-tech. This is why I DONT want to do anything
on the engine performance, I would like to log each change as to how it
effects my G-tech results. Considering the curve the T-86 charted, I
expect the TKO with shave at LEAST one second off my 0-60. We'll see!

Thanks for the offer Dan! I will try cutting out a new gasket in the
morning tomorrow, if all else fails I will send you a message. She is
doing MUCH better now, we found that part of her continuing pain is a
direct result of her well defined ab muscles. Without realizing, shes
been sucking in her abdominal swelling to reduce the looks. By doing
this all day, it was aggravating the stitches and causing pain, when
she felt more pain, she would tense up, causing more pain! Shes been
working on relaxing and its helped a LOT. We are very hopeful now.

Sorry to hear of your troubles PlainBrownR2, kidneys are so touchy it
seems, and you can NOT survive without them. Scary stuff for sure! I
hope they can get their crap together for you!

Tom

Tom, good to hear you got the avanti on the road, and your wife is doing better. I have noticed in my avanti that it's a little harder to get in to 5th but didn't really give it much thought since i dont hit that gear hard. My tko doesn't make too much noise, so maybe the syncromesh is a little better. I know its more expensive. I want to thank you for doing this thread, I know it took a lot of time writing everything up and posting all the pics. Let us know the Gtech results when you get them.

I just put new spings on the back of my avanti and have the front portion of the traction bar system mounted. It moves nice and free with no obstructions. I might try today to get the axle bracket on and then cut and tap the bars to the correct length. Its going to have right and left hand threads for esay adjustment of preload. It will be a few more weeks until I get it on the road again and it about 30 deg here in cincinnati and I am having heater issues in the garage. I'll post some pice when I get it going.


Thanks again for this thread and I know you will be happy with the 5 speed.

Dan Giblin
Cincinnati, OH

Good to see you back on the road.Hope the Mrs.continues to improve also.

Dan, you need to start a new thread for that "Gib-Trac", and get a few
pictures up for us to see your progress. Thats exciting news. I bet
Karl will be lining up as well to buy that setup. If its as good as
the TKO adapter, I will be swayed enough to stay with leafs and forget
about putting in an IRS. I think that fiberglass springs should give
me enough weight reduction I can make it work.

Karl, its certainly been a while huh? I will get it out of the garage
again tomorrow to check a few more things out. Tonight I made a plate
to seal up that hole I cut in the climate control box, and put most of
the center console back together. I found that I need to cut the steel
plate thats under the rubber boot as the shifter stick contacts it in
2nd gear. Its not a big deal to fix. I want to log some more miles
on it, and get a video done for Matt.

Tom

Its great to see that tranny conversion working so well there!! We have a few members this direction going the T-5(or is that T-56) route. I think what they did was make one or two stout designs and then just apply the tranny across the board with the idea that the tranny shouldn't splatter its guts in normal operation.

As far as my kidneys, I'd go in about every 3 months after with the medication to make sure the kidneys were functioning, of which I usually do and did normally. The hitch on the Altace is it works best when Microalbumen(big word for whizzle test) was under 20. Luckily they got it at about 13 or 14 so the kidneys returned to normal in about 6 months or so. We tracked it until there was nothing to all out freak out about. The sorry part is now I have another medication aside from the daily injections I am stuck on for life, ah well. Object lesson though to the rest of ya when they say Check up or Check out, they aint foolin!! [)]

Tom,

I've got that gasket (new production, Felpro) in the envelope waiting for the postman when you say the word.

Dan Miller
Atlanta, GA

[img=left]https://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

Does anyone know anything about "face plating" as mentioned in my previous post?

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

Thanks Dan M, I replied to you above, I appreciate the offer, though I
ended up using some stick on gasket material that you cut with an exacto
knife. It uses an adhesive on one side (which I put against the filter
aluminum block) and you add sealant on the other (Permatex No2). So far
its solved the leak. When I took apart the assembly the bolts were on
about finger tight, so the old 'new' gasket must have shrank.

Robert, I have never heard of "faceplating", and somehow doubt anyone
but Dan Miller would benefit from it.

Didnt get the Avanti out today, I had promised my wife we would go to
see the miniature ponies in Solvang (she needs to walk). The plan was
to drive the Avanti, but my buddy Tom McCaffrey stopped by and we got
to talkin Studes, suddenly it was too late to move the cars! Tom left,
and we drove the wifes '95 Z28 instead, then had lunch in Solvang.

Tomorrow for sure! (maybe)

Tom

Videos posted here :

https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...TOPIC_ID=16033

Tom

Now that Spring is here, I wanted to bump this thread for those who may not have seen it. This is the route I'm going with my r2 Daytona project. Thanks to Tom and Dan, this will be an easy conversion, and one that I think will make a huge improvement in drivability- and even help with gas mileage!

I tried to print it out, but for some reason none of my computers will print the pages as posted. So I tried to copy it to Word and trim out all the extraneous posts and was unable to print that as well. Anyone know how to do it?

Tom- if you're reading this, Thank You again for taking the time to gift us with this thread. If you can figure out how to get it and those great pictures in paper form, I'd gladly buy a copy!



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"

Got my adapter from Dan Sat. Thanks

Bams ,which pictures do you want? I can down load and print. what size?

I have been asked to put this together for an article in the Avanti
Magazine, but since we totalled my wifes Camaro, I have been going
nuts finding her another Camaro. I havent had the time or energy to
sit down and put it all together - missing the deadline. I will get
it done for the next issue, and will post up the order info when it
happens. Due to the formating on webpages, its hard to get a printer
to give you what you want. Its also hard to copy to Word. Sorry.

Glad you were finally able to get the adapter Karl.

Tom

quote:Originally posted by Karl

Bams ,which pictures do you want? I can down load and print. what size?

I'm trying to get the thread downloaded for printing; I tried to just right-click and print, but it doesn't print the thread as it is.

Tom, if you do make this into an article I'd be glad to buy it[8D]



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"

Looks like I will do the Gibb Bars also.